tl;fp
tl;fp
"I Ain't Reading All That; Free Palestine"
The meme enrages Israel supporters because Israel apologia depends on mountains of verbiage to spin obvious atrocities as reasonable and appropriate. At some point the kids noticed this was happening, and started dismissing all the narratives.
...Without mountains of narrative, all you’ve got is a nonstop deluge of raw video footage depicting the blatant genocidal criminality of Israel. No narrative overlay is required atop a video of a baby beheaded by Israeli military explosives. It stands on its own. You’d only need narrative to explain why the footage of the headless baby doesn’t say bad things about the side that’s dropping the bombs.
..Manipulators understand that they can use narrative to promote material agendas if they can get people to believe those narratives, and it enrages them when people handwave away the narrative and stick solely with the raw data of material reality. If you’ve based your life around trading empty narrative fluff for real material resources and gains, having your narratives dismissed can feel like holding a huge pile of currency that suddenly got devalued to zero. Of course the manipulators would be upset about this.
I generally agree with what you wrote, but just saying "I ain't reading all that, free Palestine" is a bad way to phrase it. Only a few days ago, someone posted this which boils down to the same phrasing, but arrives at the conclusion "trump 2024!". Saying something like "this is obviously a manipulative and false narrative" would be way better imho.
Bruh
There's a difference between that being their actual train of thinking, and just not arguing with someone who's pro genocide.
Like, I run across a lot of accounts. And give them a shot to talk in good faith.
But there's people out there who want nothing else but to argue. They have no logical consistency and will just keep saying things, and after you point out why they're wrong, drop it and pick a new one.
It gets fucking exhausting, and isn't ever going to be productive.
So I just started blocking them and it's made Lemmy so much better.
There's a very good chance the person in the screenshot is at the same point. They're just tired of people defending genocide, they know facts and logic won't get them to stop, and interacting with someone would just be a waste of time.
So...
TLDR,FP
Yeah, I agree with all of that and that's all valid! And I know that it's not their actual train of thinking, I just think that this leaves on a weak argument and that just feels kind of... defeating, you know? I'm all for blocking fact and logic-resistant people, I just really don't want to give them the feeling that they've won the discussion. But I guess you're right and with people like these you just can't end on a high note.
It's not a debate strategy only available to one side, it's a statement.
It's what you tell a flat earther who demands you watch a 2 hour video. You quit engaging because their arguments are very, very stupid.
I don’t like the logic that “you cant say this because it is a similarly structured statement to something someone bad said”
Also “i aint reading all of that; free palestine” is a lot better since it isn’t like you are gonna convince any zionists to change sides with logic, since they don’t care about logic or truth. They care about the narrative and the stories they have.
As someone who routinely
gets drunk andargues with zionists, I’ve noticed that most people nowadays are entrenched with their position on the genocide. And like arguments I’ve had with fascists in the past, you aren’t gonna be able to actually argue with them because they have 100 propaganda points drip fed from both American liberal and conservative media, and Israeli press, ready to pull out at once.When you get dog piled, or someone cites 30 propaganda news pieces, you shouldn’t engage, its a waste of time. “I aint reading that; free palestine” is probably the best thing to say
All I know is that I watched a video of a young girl, maybe 10 or 11, wailing and crying and saying that her house was bombed by the Israelis while she went to the aid station, and all she found when she returned was rubble and the bloody chunks of her family.
She's hardly the only story, and continuing to brutalize the Palestinians is only going to succeed in creating a generation of angry young adults who will continue to line up to join Hamas for revenge.
They will always have reasoning for the bombings, always had (eerily similar to the "mobile bioweapons factories in Afghanistan, which where faked by the cia). So why would I trust one word out of their mouths? They accept civilian casualties as necessary. Disgusting.
This is both sides BTW.
I would suggest there's more than 2 sides here. There's Hamas (and their supporters), who are most definitely assholes, and then there's Israel's military and intelligence aparatus and their supporters... who are also most definitely assholes.
then there are the civilians getting fucked over by all the assholes.
I think if you grew up under apartheid you'd feel differently.
Yes. But its portrayed as "one side or the other" and I really don't like either of those sides
Nah, there's two sides. Israel and Hamas are both on the side of war. And every sensible person is on the side of peace and not genocide.
"mobile bioweapons factories in
AfghanistanIraq" To quote our minister for foreign affairs: "I'm not convinced"Its difficult to trust anyone in the current times ...
Legit question, if I don't believe in 'Free Palestine', but I do believe in 'Fuck Isreal', am I an ally or an asshole?
You'd have to expand on that
Why should Palestine not be free?
Both, but that's okay too. Let's grab a beer sometime.
Palestinians can never lose
But I have very appealing arguments in favor of committing Genocide. Sir please one moment of your attention
People of whatever side trying to shortcut critical think with bullshit answers like that are super sus.
People trying to overload your critical thinking with tons of nonsensical arguments must be cut off like this.
There's no point in thinking about what someone arguing in bad faith says. You'll demonstrate how they're wrong, and they've already come up with 3 new bogus arguments while ignoring that they were wrong.
Honestly though whenever people say this I just assume they are absolute morons. Like if you aren’t willing to read a few sentences then I don’t l know how you could possibly think your opinion on anything is in any way informed.
What's one thing you read and researched that really makes you sympathize with Israel?
Israel is a country so I don’t know how one could sympathize with such a conceptual idea. But I generally try to sympathize everyone who is negatively affected by a conflict and there certainly are some Israelis who have been (hostages for example). But of course, in the current moment, that is a distraction from the primary issue of ongoing ethnic cleansing by the IDF.
I don’t know what that has to do with what I’m saying though. Ignorant people can still be on the right side of an issue by chance. But I don’t think we should be celebrating willful ignorance like this.
I can't even read this stuff anymore and not picture a drunk/high homeless kid getting righteously thrown out of a stolen truck.
without even entering on the underlying discussion, randomly throwing an equivalent to an "ok boomer" always sounds like an asshole move to me.
but you do you I guess.
free "palestine" from hamas. four words.
What do you mean "palestine"?
Do you not recognize the Palestine Authority, but instead believe the entire region has always belonged to israel via biblical predestination?
It was "palestine" before it was ever "israel", unless you mean the mythical (biblical) "Kingdom of israel", of which there is no evidence of its existence.
The fact is, Zionists invaded "palestine" and took the land and homes of the then-current native Palestinians for themselves.
But sure, free "palestine" from those who murder civilians and children.