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2y ago

Ukraine tells critics of slow counteroffensive to 'shut up'

www.reuters.com

Ukraine tells critics of slow counteroffensive to 'shut up'

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2y ago

Ukraine tells critics of slow counteroffensive to 'shut up'

www.reuters.com /world/europe/ukraine-tells-critics-slow-counteroffensive-shut-up-2023-08-31/

worldnews @sh.itjust.works

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2y ago

Ukraine tells critics of slow counteroffensive to 'shut up'

www.reuters.com /world/europe/ukraine-tells-critics-slow-counteroffensive-shut-up-2023-08-31/

1.1K comments

Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.
And those folks ain't talking.
- Well that and because its a US proxy war. With Ukrainians being slaughtered to further US goals
  
  Gee...lookee there...an uninformed rant. And what is that goal?
  
  two sentences is hardly a rant and there are plenty of quotes from american officials and armchair generals about how this war is great because it's degrading "our enemy" without costing american lives.
  
  I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That's something that's happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
  The US didn't impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.
  
  I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
  They're not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.
  The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
  The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.
  The US didn't impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did
  Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that's what happened.
  If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.
  
  The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
  Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
  
  They rejected world order.
  Based.
  
  Henry Kissinger on suicide watch
  
  World order is acknowledging sovereign countries exist and it's wrong to invade them
  
  So you're saying Ukraine rejected world order when it breached Minsk II?
  
  Right right, which countries acknowledge that Palestine exists again?
  You don’t care. You’ve never cared! Stop lying to our fucking faces you gremlin, you love this! You love this war because you’re a mindless western drone that loves cheering for imperialism and the deaths of the enemies of ‘the west’
  You don’t give a single fuck about countries sovereignty, nor of human rights, nor of life and liberty
  Fuck off
  
  Look in a mirror my friend, you may see a hypocrite staring back.
  
  World order is acknowledging sovereign countries exist and it's wrong to invade them
  The United States has invaded many more countries than Russia and China, and yet they are sanctioned for doing so/if America thinks they might do so, while not a single person in the American government is punished for the deaths of millions. They even get promoted and hired again on later governments! America created the world order! Rules for thee, not for me!
  
  Russia was sanctioned by NATO countries.
  
  Iraq Libya Afghanistan Vietnam Korea Yemen whould disagree
  
  The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want
  The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn't sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.
  
  Wait a minute...you expect a country to tolerate those sympathetic with a country.that they're at war with?
  
  why is it that every ukkkraine shill acts like history started in february 2022
  a lot of those bannings were pre-2022
  
  "Wait a minute" None of this surprises you. Youre doing this for show. You want us to feel guilty about our beliefs, and your plan is to act shocked and bewildered by things you know. Begone debate-pervert
  
  There were Nazi groups in the US at the beginning of WWIi. They were quite large. Within a year, every leader of the Bund was interned or jailed as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund
  
  I thought Ukraine were the Good Guys (tm)? Good Guys don't repress political groups because they disagree with them, they should debate them in the marketplace of ideas.
  
  The US jailed every leader of the US Nazi Bund as dangerous aliens, and by the end of December 1941, the US Government outlawed the German-American Bund.
  
  The world order where the US is allowed to invade Iraq and kill a million people on a lie? That world order?
  
  The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
  The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. They do not want to fight. The russians have sought peace negotiations several times, NATO-members like the United Kingdom, have come and stopped these negotiations.
  Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
  Ah yes, one day evil putler woke up and decided to invade, that's what happened. He rejected our Good Guys Rules Based Order because he's just such an evil dude.
  
  Geez...the Russians too are drafting folks. Conscription centers in Russia are firebombed. Your BS is kind of thick.
  The Russians have not sought peace negotiations.
  No, I think Putin is a murderer, comrade. I think he's a wanted for war crimes. I think he was so stupid that he thought this would take three days.
  
  Geez...the Russians too are drafting folks. Conscription centers in Russia are firebombed. Your BS is kind of thick.
  I never said they weren't? Nice whataboutsm. You're saying the ukrainians want to fight, I show you they don't, you imply I'm a bot, and you fail to engage with the argument.
  The Russians have not sought peace negotiations.
  So that was a fucking lie
  
  [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
  No, I think Putin is a murderer, comrade. I think he's a wanted for war crimes. I think he was so stupid that he thought this would take three days.
  Hey thanks for implying I'm a russian bot just because I disagree with you! Fuck you! Newsflash: People can disagree with you.
  I've never said he wasn't a murderer or wanted for warcrimes (though if we're being fair, every US president is wanted for war crimes in several countries as well.) I think a guy who leads a country as big as Russia is many things, but imagining he could move state apparatus on his own to invade another country based on a whim of his, and when this whim fails he would still be in power, is incredibly stupid. Had this been the case, then Prigozhins coup would have had support. Russias reasons for invading are many, boiling it down to "Putler bad lmao" is as stupid as it is naive.
  If you think he is specifically so evil, why aren't you volunteering in Ukraine against him?
  
  "I never said they weren't." You said that because Ukraine drafts fighters they don't want to fight. That's BS.
  There has been no Russian yearning for peace talks. Even china's efforts could not move the needle.
  Newsflash: calling someone comrade does not imply anything
  Name a US president wanted by the International Criminal Court.
  Putin is stupid. Prigozhin's coup did have support and now he's dead.
  
  Why aren’t you fighting in Ukraine right now?
  
  Lol, lmao even
  
  "They rejected world order" I think you should be killed like someone in the Bible
  
  ”This is a US proxy war.”
  ”That's an uninformed rant!”
  …
  ”This is a US proxy war, and that's a good thing.”
  
  Proxy War...
  a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.
  You are saying that the US had a role in instigating this war? What was it? Sounds like Putin's language to justify his stupidity
  
  The coup that they orchestrated in 2014 with the help of Nazis and Victoria Nuland. https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
  
  Sure hated to see that Putin puppet go, didn't you. That happens sometimes. I hate Nazis, especially Chicago Nazis.
  
  You hate nazis, yet you support them. Curious :thonk:
  
  Ever see the Blues Brothers?
  
  The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
  Yes good thing their escaping tyrannical rule for totally wholesome democratic rule... That bans all opposition parties and bombs their own country for nearly a decade
  
  The Russians have flattened whole cities.
  
  Just found out what war is. Damn that shit sucks
  
  Real "Antifa is burning cities to the ground!" Energy
  
  I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
  Which is why so many nations are smelling the blood in the water and casting off their western neocolonial overlords in Africa right now.
  Lmao.
  In that there is no US blood is an added advantage.
  
  Yes, Niger is a harbinger of the future...right
  
  i think we know why you find that idea unpalatable
  
  I mean yes, we are literally seeing more military coups in Africa by left wing folks who are quoting beloved anti-colonial icons, making concrete steps toward proletarian democratic elections and walking the walk on panafricanism. Algeria literally just blocked France from transporting troops through their country. Plenty of people are using the Amerikkkan empire and its European vassals being distracted and exhausted to cast off their shackles.
  
  Oh fuck these are the best emojis yet lmao
  
  Holy shit this is amazing
  
  We have the best emojis folks, many people are saying this.
  
  Holy fuck the emojis got an upgrade
  
  oh look we found the intern at Langley
  
  Department of Naval Intelligence
  American revolution was a counterrevolution you dolt. Now go ahead, tell me I "support the British empire" bc you can only think exactly one step ahead.
  
  “US Blood”
  
  You’re a monster lmao gtfo
  
  Mao like prepubesent little girls.
  
  I'm sure there is
  
  what does this have to do with anything?
  
  Saka stole from Mao who was an old pedophile
  
  what does this have to do with anything?
  
  Meanwhile literally every US president in my lifetime has either accusations against them of being pedophiles (Trump and Clinton) from victims or a direct connection to either Jeffery Epstein (Bush II, Obama and Biden) or the Franklin Scandal (Bush I)
  Not since the roman empire has there ever been a country in the history of the world more run by pedophiles than
  
  Who gives a fuck about the money? Hundreds of thousands are dead, and we are close to nuclear annihilation.
  You are enthralled to a demon. Wake up and imagine you were marched to the frontlines.
  
  Bazinga
  
  Go yell at your stepson you shifty guilty scam artist
  
  Nothing to fix.
  
  Under achievement
  
  Fuck this tankie shit. I knew lemmy was made by tankies, I did not know that majority of people here are also russian shills
  
  Don't blame us because reality is Marxist
  
  "Shills" implies we're being paid and I take offense to that because I wish I were getting paid for this
  
  You just gotta send an email to President xi for your posterbucks. Xxxi@langley.gov
  
  Hell yeah dude you should own us by leaving
  
  malding that a social platform made by tankies is filled with tankies
  Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are we?
- For sure. Thinking of this war as a giant test ground for defense industry ghouls to experiment on is horrifying
  
  The US has had its weapons used in conflicts for years. Yes, they do what they're supposed to do. Not much to learn, really.
  
  Then why do you think they're gathering intel? Surely the situation is very different in Ukraine. A weapon system is context dependent, it doesn't exist in a vacuum.
  
  Intel is a tool which the US has high capability and it takes many forms. I am sure we share this intel with the Ukrainians
  
  Who is this we? And why are you so sure? I'm not saying you are some guy working for the government I'm just saying you are making shit up and read too much of OSINT twitter so you feel 'in the know'. You don't know what intel is being gathered, if that intel even gets out or not. Like why should the US feel compelled to share with Ukraine? Because they are on the same side? From the few statements they seem more interested in using the war to pay off the MIC similar to Afghanistan and it doesn't seem like any intel was gained over a 20 year period.
  
  I am sure because it is publicly reported that we (the US) does share intelligence with Ukraine. Hope that helps
  
  "we (the US)"
  Imagine identifying with the US imperialist world order. They aren't going to let you wear the boot, no matter how hard you lick
  
  Is there anything more imperialist than invading another country?
  
  Yes. The global order of monopolistic capitalist extraction and exploitation of the global south
  Inavasion does not equal imperialism
  
  we (the US)
  
  Lol that's not how this works. Saying "We share intelligence" is worlds apart from what you want to imply here, again stop being some weird wannabe OSINT guy, at most Ukranians get satellite images which technically is 'sharing intelligence' but not what you are trying to imply here.
  
  Not as much intelligence as it shares with discord leaker man. Lots of those docs were classified noforn.
  Just another stunning victory of US intelligence.
  
  Either way they work the same.
  
  Judging by the number of western vehicles lost to mines in the last few weeks alone they do not perform the same fighting a peer military with access to large amounts of modern equipment vs ill equipped militias fighting an insurgency
  
  You expect those vehicles will not be damaged by mines huh.
  
  No, but they haven't faced massive minefields, helicopter gunships, artillery, electronic countermeasures, airstrikes, etc when occupying Iraq or Afghanistan. Fighting guerrillas and fighting a peer army are two entirely different beasts, and we see the proof in more western tanks being lost in 2 months than USA lost in 2 decades in Iraq or Afghanistan
  
  Also, America keeps losing wars to those guerilla fighters let alone an army with actual military doctorine
  
  A butter knife works the same when cutting butter or steel. It still isn't useful for cutting steel. This is what they're trying to communicate.
  A reaper drone works the same when blowing up random weddings or when flying in airspace with a networked AA system of S300s, S400s, and S500s
  Which is to say we know the underlying physics continues to operate the same but the context changes how useful the equipment is, because a butterknife is made for butter and a Reaper is made for blowing up weddings without an air defense network nearby.
  
  so, not at all, considering they even lost in Afghanistan
  
  There you go. Time to give Ukraine some AC 130 gun ships. Good suggestion.
  
  What, are there Russian hospitals in need of bombing? C130 can't operate if there is air defense
  
  Just like Afghanistan. Always bragging until Puff shows up.
  
  The degree to which you identify with the US war machine is really sad.
  
  They had gunships in Afghanistan and US still lost, not sure I see your point here. Not to mention the Taliban didn't have close to the anti-aircraft capabilities that the Russian military has. AC-130s work fine for bombing defenseless hospitals, but against a force with radar, electronic countermeasures, anti-aircraft missiles, fighter jets, and all the other tools that a modern military has access to? I think the gunships would not be nearly as effective as you think
  
  Russia has the best air defense in the world. C-130 is a big slow moving target. Even in Afghanistan they operated only at night.
  
  Sure the best...right
  
  I assume you believe China has the best?
  Regardless C-130 gunships are a hilariously bad idea. This isn't Call of Duty son.
  
  I wouldn't know who has the best, but I know if you have to say it, it's probably not true.
  130s are a bad idea, but meant to rattle chains.
  
  Or course it can't be the best, because they aren't the USA
  
  That must be why America keeps losing to farmers on the opposite side of the world.
  
  Not really, no.
  
  I mean ... calling Russia's military a "peer" is a stretch.
  
  Is it?
  
  I do find these comments entertaining. It reinforces my belief that US hubris is leading to it's decline. Imagine believing your own lies when its literally your country's existence on the line.
  
  ... K
  We clearly have fundamental, serious issues -- but you'd have to be completely delusional if "actual millitary strength" is something you think the USA lacks and Russia is anyway comparable. They're in a stalemate with with a small country using 40 year old western equipment.
  
  The US lost Afghanistan where their enemies had no airsupport and old equipmemt and weren't being supplied by the global hegemon. They also lost Vietnam which they fought a much smaller less well equipped country.
  
  So it seems you aren't aware about the $50 billion of military hardware, training, mercenaries, and aid that NATO have provided Ukraine since 2014. Are you being disingeneous for the sake of winning the argument or are you acting in good faith? I need to know whether I should continue to engage or if you're just trolling/playing dumb.
- All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with "Russia is enemy #1" are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
  I wouldn't be surprised if one of the first things considered in strategizing any armed conflict is whether they want Russia and China to know that we have X or are capable of Y. Russia has shown their hand. If they could do more, they would have by now.
  It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset. Hospitals, schools, churches, shipping centers - they're all valid targets. If Russia wants a position, they'll level the entire town. That certainly changes the plans, of anyone thought they would abode by the Geneva Conventions.
  
  All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with "Russia is enemy #1" are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
  The ones that haven't suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can't figure out. This is even considering that Russia was found to have been paying out bounties on dead American soldiers, or that they had people assassinated in the UK. Certainly it should be a disqualifier that Russia isn't a true Democracy and had Putin's political opponents jailed. Two Democracies won't directly start a conflict against each other, but that doesn't hold up between Democracies and non-Democracies.
  My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
  
  My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
  Same, feels like the democracies of the world really got caught with their pants down by authoritarian operatives and their LLMs on social media.
  
  Putin will only run out of money once the price of oil nosedives.
  That won't happen because Saudi Arabia has been squeezing oil output to keep the price high because they need the money for their countries transformation to a horror Show (different discussion required there) and they basically keep squeezing until the US gives them a whole lot of concessions that they don't want to...
  
  The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out.
  The reason is money. Either they got paid by Putin or they've been brainwashed by someone who got paid by Putin.
  
  The Russians have less tactics and capabilities than NATO thought. Now it is a matter of how quickly they can be overwhelmed should it come to it. Their big problem is mid level command.
  
  And what they do have was built and developed by the Soviets.
  
  It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset.
  Oh those backwards Russians, still stuck in the past, where they were just a bunch of barbarian hordes. I assume the West, by contrast, has developed a civilized kind of warfare, as befitting their superior civilized culture? That's what you're saying, right?
  The civilized West would never... oh yeah they would and they did, repeatedly, and it was worse actually in e.g. Iraq. So all this "barbarism" shit is just racism with no basis in reality.
  
  Or both sides suck and all war is bad, and no one should attack sovereign countries
  
  Russia is still using barbaric tactics, according to the person I replied to. This implies that barbarism is typical (and backwards) of Russia, like that racist trope about barbaric Mongol hordes. It also implies that someone else (presumably NATO, which they mention) isn't using barbaric tactics, which is blatantly untrue.
  I don't understand how what you wrote is a addressing my post? What's your point?
  
  Has Russia been bombing civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine?
  Please note, I am asking nothing about NATO or America. I agree, the US has committed atrocities in other countries at war. I'm asking specifically if Russia has bombed civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine.
  
  So it's not racist to say Russia is still in a barbaric mindset, because they are bombing apartment buildings in Ukraine? Is that it? Even though the way it was phrased implies that barbarism is typical of Russia and its history, and also falsely implies NATO isn't barbaric and isn't doing the same thing, and it's a well-known racist trope?
  This person's comment exhibits the common double standard of the good civilized nations vs. the uncivilized primitives bullshit, which is about the oldest racist narrative there is.
  
  I didn't say anything about the people. Every Russian person I have met is super nice.
  Governments though, they suck. Governments bomb apartment buildings full of people. These particular governments are barbaric.
  I think it is important to acknowledge that both the US government and the Russian government are responsible for terrible atrocities. It is not racist to say that.
  
  All the Russians you have met left Russia :)
  
  While funny, I actually genuinely don't believe that an entire population of people is "bad." I've actually made a point of living in a lot of historically "bad" places, and it turns out, everyone just wants to eat good food and have a good time 😅
- Someone should go bunker-hunting as a 'lost urbex enthusiast' and put them on a map. Maybe some backchannel archive in case they go 'missing'. Once the list/map goes public, thousands of unmissed tech sociopaths turn to pink mist overnight.
- the whole world is sending people to become veterans so they can return with their experience and become trainers.

1123 comments