What is your opinion on Lemmy.world and by extension instances that have hexbear defederated?
What is your opinion on Lemmy.world and by extension instances that have hexbear defederated?
My first time experience here had been very politically charged and I asked about it in askLemmy and I was told to immediately block you people in the options I was given
I had the opportunity to browse around and found out that you folk were decent and weren't as awful as told in that post I made
How do you view .world and by extension other instances that defederate (and view negatively) towards you?
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The other big instances that were only created as a response to the reddit "exodus" are kind of a joke to us, as we existed for 3 years in our own community before they were even conceived - yet somehow we are consistently derided as the "invaders", "brigaders" or generally othered explicitly due to the range of political opinions expressed here and a site culture of having no respect for civility, decorum or norms when discussing political matters.
.worlders will continuously deny that reasons for their group hatred of hexbear are political, but as a number of posters have pointed out and supplied the link to, .world defederated with hexbear as a "pre-emptive last resort". Therefore, no .worlder has ever been able to see our posts or comments whatsoever, unless they were also registered to another instance. Their announcement post outlining the "pre-emptive last resort" also explicitly outlines the reasoning as political.
On the civility aspect, realistically at the core of it this is also political - I think many here agree that the bounds of "civil discussion" are specifically drawn to entrench the status quo, and also note that an easy tactic to silence dissent is to attack the manner in which words are said when you cannot logically attack or disagree with the substance of the argument (I swear i'm not trying to act like a debate pervert, but I do sound like a dweeb here). This inherently grows from a contradiction though: Why is it civil to be able to debate the validity and existence of marginalised peoples, or justify genocide, or argue for the upkeep of the current hegemony? And why is it not civil to tell those who justify genocide, argue that the current hegemony is inherently superior, or believe that people's existence should be erased to eat shit? This is where many other instances (mostly those established in 2023 and not 2020) refuse to apply thought, leading to a dedicated handful posting everywhere possible that hexbear is "aggressive" or "abusive".
All in all, we have our little corner of the internet and we like it. We dabbled in federation, given Dessalines' vision for lemmy as a platform, and had our ups and downs. But overall, given the process of the "pre-emptive last resort" and the related threads at the time, we probably don't think about lemmy.world often, other than when we bring it up as a joke to laugh at. It's a place where redditors ran to continue to be redditors on lemmy software instead of reddit and feel good about themselves for it. It is administered and moderated like the former "default" subreddits are, with all of the white cishet american male hang-ups that this entails. Many therefore think it is a deeply unserious place, and subsequently pay it the amount of mind it deserves.
On the civility aspect, realistically at the core of it this is also political - I think many here agree that the bounds of "civil discussion" are specifically drawn to entrench the status quo, and also note that an easy tactic to silence dissent is to attack the manner in which words are said when you cannot logically attack or disagree with the substance of the argument (I swear i'm not trying to act like a debate pervert, but I do sound like a dweeb here). This inherently grows from a contradiction though: Whyis it civil to be able to debate the validity and existence of marginalised peoples, or justifygenocide, or argue for the upkeep of the current hegemony? And why is it not civil to tell those who justify genocide, argue that the current hegemony is inherently superior, or believe that people's existence should be erased to eat shit? This is where many other instances (mostly those established in 2023 and not 2020) refuse to apply thought, leading to a dedicated handful posting everywhere possible that hexbear is "aggressive" or "abusive".
I love hexbear for this comment alone.
holy shit, somebody likes my low-tier rambling
(there are like hundreds of more knowledgeable posters than me here, so i'm glad that i was able to be insightful)
It’s not even that it’s insightful, it’s summing up my experience in liberal spaces perfectly
to tack on another thought that was bouncing around while i was talking about "civility"
we may not be outwardly civil (in a way that western liberals define it), but we are respectful to our comrades and to those with a willingness to learn or improve. there is a difference, and as many younger generations and elder leftists likely believe, respect is earned and not freely given.
The main reason people thinks it's not a civil place is because of the ones who come in, shit in the house then complain people get mad at them.
Like no shit people aren't going to be civil when the start is hostile. Then they go and use it as justification for why hexbear.net must be contained.
tfw they complain that we both organise downvote brigades (when we can't downvote) and simultaneously dogpile comments (because we post our opinions because we can't downvote)
how dare they flood me with comments as I try to debate bro in bad faith!
90% of their complaints. Same for those complaining about ml in the db0 power tripping bastards comm
hexbears to a wandering lib containment breach:
What part of "No investigation, no right to speak" do you not understand
A lot of it is this.
I also think that it's because a lot of the time these internet liberals looking for 'civilised debate' only understand it in the most penned-in, theory and evidence free, reddit way imaginable. They're deeply uncomfortable (and sometimes actually incapable) of engaging with arguement from outside that narrow frame.
I occassionally meet them on their internet debate style (mostly because other non-Hexbear users do sometimes read these threads when the OP goes back and complains on other instances) like in this recent thread example. And when you do and neutralise their main out by being actively civil at least one of three things usually happens, often in order:
- They take the presenting of an actually contrary view or arguement (often backed up with evidence) to their own as aggression because emotionally it makes them feel undermined when they're not able to reply with the same degree of confidence or demonstratable examples.
- They double-down on their own incivility and attacks in order to try and lure you back onto ground they feel more confident on; insult slinging and complaining about that
- They stop responding.
The fact is that most of the people who barge into our little commie/anarchist bar here demanding "debate" only recognise it as the second-hand snide one-upmanship of American liberals talking about marginly different shades of US party politics downstream of pretty facile liberal US politics media like PodSaveAmerica/Majority Report/CenterCast etc (I made that last one up). Being confronted with actual robust critique from an actually alternative perspective, no matter how civil and Reddit-rules-like it is, is clearly profoundly uncomfortable for them, and they react badly before going back to the likes of Lemmy.World to complain, call us all crazy (or even more ablist assertions) or paid trolls, and feel like they're on familiar ground again.
god damn, thank you so much for actually explaining what I was trying to identify. elite analysis