You know what moment has always bugged me in Star Trek Enterprise?
You know what moment has always bugged me in Star Trek Enterprise?
I’m always bugged more by individual moments than bigger things. So while T’Pol might be wearing an old fun center carpet as a uniform, and the temporal Cold War is both overly complex and excruciatingly boring neither of those things bothers me more than the following.
In season one, there is an episode titled ‘Unexpected’. In this episode Tripp becomes space pregnant from an alien space mama. During his pregnancy he is framed as becoming irrationally overconcerned about the safety of very minor or unlikely hazards.
At one point, he is in engineering and complains that if you hold onto the handrail of the elevator while it moves, your fingers will be sliced off against the scaffolding since there is no gap.
A crew member brushes him off by just saying, essentially, “Lol skill issue, just don’t hold the handguard.”
Again, Tripp is the one being framed as irrational in this discussion. Because he has a problem with a handguard that slices your fingers off.
Space hormones or not, he’s right that it’s a terrible design.
You're viewing a single thread.
I mean… he didn’t even get on about the lack of seat belts.
Federation space ships are in fact horribly designed. - thruster placement is off balance with CoG requiring constant control inputs to go in a straight line.
- seatbelts.
- surge protection.
- replicator technology exists, yet they don’t design ships capable of being repaired with self created parts. (Even if they have to build the replicator large enough first….)
- replicators take energy and convert it to matter- or matter into energy. Yet they don’t design ships to use this as fuel.
- they send ships that are expected to go into battle- and carry children and civilians on board-but this ships are also able to go toe to toe with their equivalents from hostile races 1v2-3. But then insist they’re not warships.
- insist on not having a unit of exchange or currency, but then some how having massive amounts of trade and economy.
- their ships waste a shit load of internal volume with the saucer, the neck and the nacelles.
Hello fellow space alien posting on Terran communications boards.
All of your points are correct with the following exception:
• Matter replicators expend energy to convert it into matter, or do the opposite. It is a lossy process, meaning you do not get 100% as a return. The best S+ or A-5 engineered units are 88-98% efficient.
• Theoretically, fuel in space is "infinite" as stars and hydrogen are literally everywhere, so going to planets to gather resources to disassemble in replicators is both a literal waste of time and energy. Dilithium crystals in the show are a hilarious example of contrived scarcity for plot.
- They have carpets on the TV show. Carpets. On a space ship. That is guaranteed not a warship, because carpets.
I've taken the mass hit and installed gray carpets in key locations of our own ships and instigated a no shoes policy and I'll tell you what, it's never been more comfortable :)
You should definitely try installing carpets
- Naz
Fuel sources in Voyager are very canonically "not common." But then that probably has more to do with using antimatter as fuel, instead of your nearest asteroid or gas pocket.
While you are correct that it is not perfectly efficient… the ability to stop off at a random star and expect to find some form of matter that can be turned into fuel simply by transporting it aboard and processing it into a singularity or something… would be extremely useful for an “exploration” ship
At least the the ships being warships carrying civilians things has a real life analog. Many (but not all) colony ships sailing Earth oceans were usually heavily armed. This was to deter pirates or privateers from raiding the ships the day after they left port and taking all the supplies they’d need for their colony. And the ships were full of women and children. And more than a few got into battles somewhere along their voyage. Then when the colonists got where they were going, in some instances they’d just pull the guns off the ship and set them up to defend the colony.
It is not canon but one of the novels mention that it was an idea to break species nationalism and encourage a meltingpot. All those kids onboard the starships would identify as Federation not as whatever planet their parents were from.
- insist on not having a unit of exchange or currency, but then some how having massive amounts of trade and economy.
As you mentioned before, they have replicators, so why would they have currency inside the Federation?
They don't need money in the Federation, but since they have limited resources on a spaceship and also interact with other species, they kinda have to barter, mostly to curry favor with these species.
They have trade. Inside and outside.
Currency facilitates trade. Next question: why do they need trade? (Besides cultural exports- let’s…. Not get into that.)
Goods can be exchanged without currency. It's called barter and has been around longer than money.
And there’s a reason most places use currency.
It’s quite a bit more convenient than having to actually have other goods to barter with,
But what will be stored in all those boxes on the cargo decks? Something needs to hit Worf!
This is essentially not true.
There's this popular notion that "There was the bucket maker and the fisherman. I'll trade you a bucket for some fish, said the bucket maker. Sounds good, said the fisherman. Then when the bucket maker finished eating his fish, he went back to the fisherman and said I'll trade you another bucket for some more fish and the fisherman said No thanks, the first one is doing just fine." and the side quest for the bucket maker to find someone who wants a bucket right now got to the point where we just need to invent some universal third good: Money.
This is a fallacy. Small communities like those humanity started out with operate on a sort of social credit. "Ah you gave me those fish last month, we'll call it even." Eventually a community gets big enough that you start using a more formal credit system, then once the community gets big enough that you don't personally know everyone in your community, you adopt a hard currency.
In practically all cases, barter is an ad hoc system used between communities with incompatible currencies and then only briefly until relations can be established, or by individuals for whom hard currency is unavailable or inconvenient at the moment.
I'm glad we could find consensus; as you confirm barter has been around longer than money (or the time it takes to build the relationship required to trust currency exchange) and it can be used where money isused too.
Yours builds on the idea, which is fine. But the point is that The Federation doesn't need money - the gold pressed latinum is where they explore currency and seems to be missed by OP.
(Besides cultural exports- let’s…. Not get into that.)
The British Museumthe Doctor wants to know you location.I mean, why do you think Picard was a student of archeology? You thought it was just being 'well rounded'... nuhuh.
the only thing of value are the intangibles- culture, art, etc. even that can be quickly and near-perfectly reproduced. the reality is the only things worth trading are either illegal (see Mudd), new technology (also see Mudd) or cultural.
They have trade. Inside and outside.
Outside sure, but I don't think I have seen any internally. Do you have examples?
Currency facilitates trade. Next question: why do they need trade? (Besides cultural exports- let’s…. Not get into that.)
They can just replicate the other's civilization money if it is at a lower stage of technology advancement. In the scenario of the same or later technology stage, like the Ferengi Alliance, they would trade for technology, information and/or territories.
The one resource they have a desperate need is dilithium, which they had automated the extraction using the Doctor holograms lol.
the trouble with tribbles grain deal comes to mind. The grain is being held/shipped for a member world.
Then there’s Cassidy Yates and all the federation traders in ds9 (though that’s not a solid argument.) there’s also the cargo ships frequently used in tng as background.
Dilithium deuterium minning are also frequently mentioned… usually the federation being interested in minning for its own use. (Just another reason to build the power system off something else…actually.)
the trouble with tribbles grain deal comes to mind. The grain is being held/shipped for a member world.
Being shipped doesn't mean it is a trade deal, they offered assistance due to its strategic position as it is a disputed planet between the Federation and the Klingons. And if you're talking about the deal between the bartender and Cyrano Jones, he is independent from the Federation, like Quark's bar, any deal between would be external (and they seem to use credits as a currency?).
Then there’s Cassidy Yates and all the federation traders in ds9 (though that’s not a solid argument.) there’s also the cargo ships frequently used in tng as background.
In a similar situation, Deep Space Station 9 is close to disputed territory and Federation candidate members. So again, they deal between Federation and others species. And the cargo ships in TNG aren't necessarily, doing any sort trade, they may simply hauling supplies for Federation planets and colonies.
Dilithium deuterium minning are also frequently mentioned… usually the federation being interested in minning for its own use. (Just another reason to build the power system off something else…actually.)
Since they need it for every warp drive spaceship, I assume it would be a very well controlled resource. And due to its importance I don't think they would hire external help, so it would be fair to assume they use Federation miners and scientists to extract it. But again I don't think they mention any internal trade, so I assume they distribute it accordingly to each species or organization.
The romulans don’t need dilithium for theirs. They use singularities instead of antimatter- the stuff somehow regulates the flow or the reaction or something.
In any case…. It’s pretty inconceivable that there are that many member worlds with private captains running trade routes through ds9 without there being robust trade.
“Oh that’s just private people” is a cop out. It’s a matter of semantics- the federation has extensive trade networks and economic product. It hires people to design and build… everything… and to be baristas at StellarBucks (or did you think they were just doing that for the lulz?)
their ships waste a shit load of internal volume with the saucer, the neck and the nacelles.
It's called style.
it's almost like they got this guy instead of proper engineers:
Explosions
"Haven't any of you guys invented fuses!" - John Crichton
Farscape is one of those shows I can only tolerate in small doses but still love. Also it's science is too bad, considering.
I tried watching it through as a background thing while playing podcast games and found it really hard to do more than a couple episodes.
It's damn near soap level plots for a lot of it, but I really love the characters.
Yup.
A lot of the plot is just straight up bizarre. On the other hand the characters are fairly compelling, and the comedy is classic.
Replicators convert matter into other matter. In Voyager, they show that replicators use a blue gel, and that blue gel is impossible to make on the ship. It's why Neelix needs to make a mess hall and cook. It's probably cheaper to make parts out of metal than produce the gel, and there might be limits to the size of what can be made. Also, there are materials replicators can't make, such as Latinum, the currency that Ferengi's use. It does seem odd that replicators make both the tea and the tea cup. Seems like a waste to make the cup too. Then what happens to the cup?
The Enterprise D from TNG is not meant to be a warship and there are a couple episodes that explore that. But, would you rather have your exploration vessel be able to defend itself if needed, or not?
The Federation does trade with the other empires as well as manage production within itself, but it handles trade at the government level, so that individuals don't need to worry about it. Some still do trade though.