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Zionismus- und Nazianschuldigungen | Zionism and nazism accusations

English version below.


Hallo zusammen,

in den letzten Tagen gab es einige Anschuldigungen sowohl gegen die Moderatoren von !europe@feddit.org als auch gegen unser Adminteam Nazis oder Zionisten zu sein, vorrangig aufgrund des Umgangs mit Kritik an Israel.

Wir weisen diese Anschuldigungen hiermit ausdrücklich zurück und werden derartige Anschuldigungen nicht tolerieren. Insbesondere sind Personen die Andere derart beschuldigen, ohne dass es dafür konkrete objektive Anlässe gibt, auf feddit.org nicht willkommen. Dies ist bereits von unserer Regel zu respektvollem Umgang gedeckt, welcher hier in keinster Weise erbracht wird.

Zunächst einmal möchten wir daran erinnern, dass die Nutzung von feddit.org mit den Rechten und Gesetzen der DACH-Region vereinbar sein muss. Dies ist explizit in unseren Instanzregeln erwähnt, und beinhaltet Deutschland (D), Österreich (A), und Schweiz (CH). Die Infrastruktur von feddit.org wird von der Fediverse Foundation, einem gemeinnützigen Verein in Österreich betreut. Unser Adminteam, welches sich um die Instanzweite Moderation, Organisation, sowie Mitbetreuung der Infrastruktur von feddit.org kümmert ist in Deutschland ansässig. Da wir allgemein den deutschsprachigen Raum als primäre Zielgruppe haben versuchen wir auch entsprechend die Gesetze der Schweiz zu berücksichtigen.

Auch wenn wir nicht aktiv nach Gesetzesverstößen suchen müssen, ist es zumindest in einigen Fällen nötig nach Kenntnisnahme einzugreifen. Dies beinhaltet z.B. wenn Moderatoren oder Admins Meldungen zu Posts oder Kommentaren erhalten, aber auch wenn derartige Inhalte zufällig entdeckt werden, wenn man auf Lemmy unterwegs ist.

https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung

Beim „Hosting“ haftet der Diensteanbieter beschränkt, sofern der Anbieter

  • keine tatsächliche Kenntnis von konkreten rechtswidrigen Tätigkeiten oder Inhalten hat und sich in Bezug auf Schadenersatzansprüche auch keiner Tatsachen oder Umstände bewusst ist, aus denen die rechtswidrige Tätigkeit oder Inhalte offensichtlich hervorgehen, und
  • sobald er diese Kenntnis oder dieses Bewusstsein erlangt, zügig tätig wird, um den Zugang zu den rechtswidrigen Inhalten zu sperren oder diese zu entfernen.

Relevante Straftatbestände sind unter anderem Folgende:

Rechtliche Instrumente gegen die Verbreitung von antisemitischen oder terroristische Handlungen gutheißenden Äußerungen, des Deutschen Bundestages (Deutschland)

§ 130 Volksverhetzung (Deutschland)

Einige weiterführende Links:

Wir stehen in diesem Fall vollständig hinter den Moderatoren von !europe@feddit.org, bei rechtlichen Unsicherheiten lieber zu viel als zu wenig zu entfernen.

Auslöser für die aktuelle Debatte ist u.a. dieser Post, welcher der Entfernung eines Kommentars folgte, für einen Vergleich des Nationalsozialismus mit der aktuellen Situation in Israel, was unserem Verständnis nach als Verharmlosung des Nationalsozialismus betrachtet werden kann. Derartige Aussagen können u.a. zu Haftstrafen führen. In dem Post wurde u.a. behauptet, dass die Entfernung zionistische Hintergründe hätte, eine Anschuldigung die grundsätzlich von entsprechenden Nachweisen unterstützt sein sollte, und vor welcher ausgeschlossen werden sollte, dass es alternative Erklärungen gibt.

Wir werden nicht jeden Kommentar der Ansatzweise in die Richtung geht entfernen, jedoch behalten wir uns vor Personen die unsere Instanz, Admins, Moderatoren, oder andere Nutzer ohne stichhaltige Argumente als Nazis oder Zionisten beschuldigen, insbesondere wenn dies mehr als ein vereinzelter Kommentar ist, permanent von feddit.org auszuzschließen.

Hierzu gehören auch Inhalte wie dieser Post von @Deceptichum@quokk.au, welcher kurz davor bereits aufgrund von vielfachen Aufrufen zu Gewalt und Terror von unserer Instanz gebannt wurde. Diese Person scheint zudem auch die Instanz quokk.au zu administrieren, oder zumindest gute Beziehungen zum Admin zu haben, da wir in nahem zeitlichen Zusammenhang eine Zensur auf Fediseer von quokk.au erhalten haben, in welcher wir als Zionisten und Nazis beschuldigt werden, und @Deceptichum@quokk.au in den Raum gestellt hat quokk.au von uns zu deföderieren (Archiv).

Falls diese Zensur von quokk.au nicht zeitnah zurückgenommen werden sollte werden wir quokk.au von unserer Seite für diese anhaltslosen und unwahren Anschuldigungen deföderieren. quokk.au ist eine relativ kleine Instanz mit nur wenigen lokalen Nutzern, welche versucht hat eine alternative Newscommunity aufzubauen, die nicht auf einer der "großen" Instanzen liegt. Leider scheint auch diese Community eine schlechte Alternative zu sein, wenn dies der reguläre Umgang des dortigen Admins ist.


Hello all,

in the last few days there have been some accusations against the moderators of !europe@feddit.org as well as against our admin team of being Nazis or Zionists, mainly because of the way of dealing with criticism of Israel.

We explicitly reject these accusations and will not tolerate such accusations. In particular, people who accuse others in this way without any concrete objective reason are not welcome on feddit.org. This is already covered by our rule of respectful interaction.

First of all, we would like to remind you, that the use of feddit.org must be compliant with the rights and regulations of the DACH region. This is explicitly mentioned in our instance rules, and includes Germany (D), Austria (A) and Switzerland (CH). The infrastructure of feddit.org is maintaind by the Fediverse Foundation, a non-profit association in Austria. Our Admin team, which takes care of the instance wide moderation, organization and supporting infrastructure operations, is based in Germany. Since we primarily target the German speaking coutries, we also try to comply with laws and regulations of Switzerland.

Even if we do not have to actively search for violations of the law, it is necessary to intervene after becoming aware of them. This includes, for example when moderators or admins receive messages about posts or comments, but also when such content is discovered by chance when browsing Lemmy.

https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung

In the case of “hosting”, the service provider has limited liability if the provider

  • has no actual knowledge of specific unlawful activities or content and is not aware of any facts or circumstances with regard to claims for damages from which the unlawful activity or content is obvious, and
  • as soon as it obtains this knowledge or awareness, takes swift action to block access to the illegal content or to remove it.

Relevant criminal offenses include the following:

Legal instruments against the dissemination of anti-Semitic statements or statements condoning terrorist acts of the German Parliament (German)

Section 130 Incitement of masses

Some further links, mostly in German:

In this instance, we fully support the moderators of !europe@feddit.org to potentially remove too much rather than too little in case of legal uncertainties.

One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.

We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.

This includes content such as this post by @Deceptichum@quokk.au, who was banned from our instance shortly before that post due to multiple incitements of violence and terrorism. This person also seems to be the admin of the instance quokk.au, or at least to have good relations to the admin, since we received a censure on Fediseer from quokk.au around the same time, in which we are being accused of being Zionists and Nazis, and @Deceptichum@quokk.au has suggested to defederate quokk.au from us (archive).

If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations. quokk.au is a relatively small instance with only a few local users, which tried to build an alternative news community that is not on one of the “big” instances. Unfortunately, this community also seems to be a poor alternative if this is how their admin typically acts.

244 comments
  • Zionism is a colonial project, is the ideological underpinning for the genocide that Israel is committing in Gaza, and is the underpinning for the apartheid Israel maintains. You know who also committed a genocide? The nazis! So in that, Israel and the nazis are very similar. Personally I would say that this negates the right to exist for the state of Israel in its current form, but I guess that depends entirely on whether you view Palestinians as human or not.

    • You are either ignorant or do the same what you accuse others of. There is no realistic way the state of Israel stops to exist without a lot of bloodshed but apparently you consider the life of some people to be worth less than others?

      • Sorry, no. Apartheid was ended before and it can be ended again. We choose not to.

      • The life of the Nazis was very much worth less than the lives of Jewish people. The life of US soldiers was worth less than that of Vietnamese civilians.

        This is no different. Genocide is genocide, you're not the first ones to claim the people being victimized are the real aggressors and the oppressors are being unfairly persecuted.

        • You are aware that most Israelis are civilians, right?

        • Wow, my man. You are quick to decide how much a life is worth. Funny how you sound like a fucking Nazi. A few decades ago, you could have been one of the „finest“ of the SS.

          • Right, Nazis, famous for saying the lives of the powerful oppressors are worth less than those of their victims 🙄

            "Death to the master race" -Nazis, apparently

            • Exactly this. Who do you think was framed by the Nazis as this powerful elite, deciding the fate of the world and ultimately destroying the german people?

              It is always the same playbook with those motherfuckers. Demonize the „enemy“ by telling how almighty and dangerous they are, while at the same time diminishing them, making them less than human, their lifes worth less. Same shit happening in the US at the moment. Same shit happening in the middle east.

              • This is either stupid and ignorant or knowingly disingenuous.

                Who do you think was framed by the Nazis as this powerful elite, deciding the fate of the world

                Themselves, of course. The "master race." Only, they argued, because white people were so magnanimous, they had allowed themselves to be decived into granting "lesser" races power. Their solution was to reject any sympathy for the poor and marginalized, to denounce them as "weak," and to have the "strong" rule, mercilessly and unapologetically.

                Now, you're trying to equate someone sticking up for the poor and marginalized with that, the exact opposite. And, for some reason, the people here hypocritically seem to have no problem with this, despite the fact that they describe other comparisons to the Nazis as "downplaying their atrocities." It's completely absurd.

                The far-right nowadays is mostly supportive of Israel over the Palestinians, because their primary beliefs is that the strong should rule the weak mercilessly and unapologetically, as Israel does. It's the left, those committed to equality who are standing up calling for equal rights, or at the very least, mercy towards the oppressed.

                • Of course the Nazis saw themselves as the elite of the world, while at the same time dehumanizing the jewish population and depicting them as this powerful elite that took a big part, for example, in losing WW1. Look up the „Dolchstoßlüge“ or stab-in-the-back lie. Nobody says, fascist have a coherent world view. They love to play the strong man and the victim at the same time.

                  The person you are defending here is telling us, that jewish lives are worth less and (down below) that every Jew ist a „fair target“. They are not outright calling for the death of all Israeli Jews here, because they at least would be banned here and could be prosecuted under criminal law, but they are very very strongly implying exactly that. They are, ironically enough, at the same time comparing Israelis (you know, only the one kind, that has compulsatory miltary service), with the Nazis, while at the same time spreading extermination fantasies. Are you insane to step on their side?

                  You write it, the far-right loves the idea, that the strong should rule the weak. It stems from the believe, that people are fundamentally unequal. The left has the believe, that all people have the same worth. You don't get to call yourself a leftist and speak about more ore less worthy lives, like OP.

                  The situation in the Middle East is a fucking mess and there is no simple solution. I strongly believe, that every decent person should work to stop the war crimes, that Israel is committing at the moment. But apart from that, there is no clear good and evil.

244 comments