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Zionismus- und Nazianschuldigungen | Zionism and nazism accusations

English version below.

Hallo zusammen,

in den letzten Tagen gab es einige Anschuldigungen sowohl gegen die Moderatoren von !europe@feddit.org als auch gegen unser Adminteam Nazis oder Zionisten zu sein, vorrangig aufgrund des Umgangs mit Kritik an Israel.

Wir weisen diese Anschuldigungen hiermit ausdrücklich zurück und werden derartige Anschuldigungen nicht tolerieren. Insbesondere sind Personen die Andere derart beschuldigen, ohne dass es dafür konkrete objektive Anlässe gibt, auf feddit.org nicht willkommen. Dies ist bereits von unserer Regel zu respektvollem Umgang gedeckt, welcher hier in keinster Weise erbracht wird.

Zunächst einmal möchten wir daran erinnern, dass die Nutzung von feddit.org mit den Rechten und Gesetzen der DACH-Region vereinbar sein muss. Dies ist explizit in unseren Instanzregeln erwähnt, und beinhaltet Deutschland (D), Österreich (A), und Schweiz (CH). Die Infrastruktur von feddit.org wird von der Fediverse Foundation, einem gemeinnützigen Verein in Österreich betreut. Unser Adminteam, welches sich um die Instanzweite Moderation, Organisation, sowie Mitbetreuung der Infrastruktur von feddit.org kümmert ist in Deutschland ansässig. Da wir allgemein den deutschsprachigen Raum als primäre Zielgruppe haben versuchen wir auch entsprechend die Gesetze der Schweiz zu berücksichtigen.

Auch wenn wir nicht aktiv nach Gesetzesverstößen suchen müssen, ist es zumindest in einigen Fällen nötig nach Kenntnisnahme einzugreifen. Dies beinhaltet z.B. wenn Moderatoren oder Admins Meldungen zu Posts oder Kommentaren erhalten, aber auch wenn derartige Inhalte zufällig entdeckt werden, wenn man auf Lemmy unterwegs ist.

https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung

Beim „Hosting“ haftet der Diensteanbieter beschränkt, sofern der Anbieter

  • keine tatsächliche Kenntnis von konkreten rechtswidrigen Tätigkeiten oder Inhalten hat und sich in Bezug auf Schadenersatzansprüche auch keiner Tatsachen oder Umstände bewusst ist, aus denen die rechtswidrige Tätigkeit oder Inhalte offensichtlich hervorgehen, und
  • sobald er diese Kenntnis oder dieses Bewusstsein erlangt, zügig tätig wird, um den Zugang zu den rechtswidrigen Inhalten zu sperren oder diese zu entfernen.

Relevante Straftatbestände sind unter anderem Folgende:

Rechtliche Instrumente gegen die Verbreitung von antisemitischen oder terroristische Handlungen gutheißenden Äußerungen, des Deutschen Bundestages (Deutschland)

§ 130 Volksverhetzung (Deutschland)

Einige weiterführende Links:

Wir stehen in diesem Fall vollständig hinter den Moderatoren von !europe@feddit.org, bei rechtlichen Unsicherheiten lieber zu viel als zu wenig zu entfernen.

Auslöser für die aktuelle Debatte ist u.a. dieser Post, welcher der Entfernung eines Kommentars folgte, für einen Vergleich des Nationalsozialismus mit der aktuellen Situation in Israel, was unserem Verständnis nach als Verharmlosung des Nationalsozialismus betrachtet werden kann. Derartige Aussagen können u.a. zu Haftstrafen führen. In dem Post wurde u.a. behauptet, dass die Entfernung zionistische Hintergründe hätte, eine Anschuldigung die grundsätzlich von entsprechenden Nachweisen unterstützt sein sollte, und vor welcher ausgeschlossen werden sollte, dass es alternative Erklärungen gibt.

Wir werden nicht jeden Kommentar der Ansatzweise in die Richtung geht entfernen, jedoch behalten wir uns vor Personen die unsere Instanz, Admins, Moderatoren, oder andere Nutzer ohne stichhaltige Argumente als Nazis oder Zionisten beschuldigen, insbesondere wenn dies mehr als ein vereinzelter Kommentar ist, permanent von feddit.org auszuzschließen.

Hierzu gehören auch Inhalte wie dieser Post von @Deceptichum@quokk.au, welcher kurz davor bereits aufgrund von vielfachen Aufrufen zu Gewalt und Terror von unserer Instanz gebannt wurde. Diese Person scheint zudem auch die Instanz quokk.au zu administrieren, oder zumindest gute Beziehungen zum Admin zu haben, da wir in nahem zeitlichen Zusammenhang eine Zensur auf Fediseer von quokk.au erhalten haben, in welcher wir als Zionisten und Nazis beschuldigt werden, und @Deceptichum@quokk.au in den Raum gestellt hat quokk.au von uns zu deföderieren (Archiv).

Falls diese Zensur von quokk.au nicht zeitnah zurückgenommen werden sollte werden wir quokk.au von unserer Seite für diese anhaltslosen und unwahren Anschuldigungen deföderieren. quokk.au ist eine relativ kleine Instanz mit nur wenigen lokalen Nutzern, welche versucht hat eine alternative Newscommunity aufzubauen, die nicht auf einer der "großen" Instanzen liegt. Leider scheint auch diese Community eine schlechte Alternative zu sein, wenn dies der reguläre Umgang des dortigen Admins ist.

Hello all,

in the last few days there have been some accusations against the moderators of !europe@feddit.org as well as against our admin team of being Nazis or Zionists, mainly because of the way of dealing with criticism of Israel.

We explicitly reject these accusations and will not tolerate such accusations. In particular, people who accuse others in this way without any concrete objective reason are not welcome on feddit.org. This is already covered by our rule of respectful interaction.

First of all, we would like to remind you, that the use of feddit.org must be compliant with the rights and regulations of the DACH region. This is explicitly mentioned in our instance rules, and includes Germany (D), Austria (A) and Switzerland (CH). The infrastructure of feddit.org is maintaind by the Fediverse Foundation, a non-profit association in Austria. Our Admin team, which takes care of the instance wide moderation, organization and supporting infrastructure operations, is based in Germany. Since we primarily target the German speaking coutries, we also try to comply with laws and regulations of Switzerland.

Even if we do not have to actively search for violations of the law, it is necessary to intervene after becoming aware of them. This includes, for example when moderators or admins receive messages about posts or comments, but also when such content is discovered by chance when browsing Lemmy.

https://www.wko.at/internetrecht/providerhaftung

In the case of “hosting”, the service provider has limited liability if the provider

  • has no actual knowledge of specific unlawful activities or content and is not aware of any facts or circumstances with regard to claims for damages from which the unlawful activity or content is obvious, and
  • as soon as it obtains this knowledge or awareness, takes swift action to block access to the illegal content or to remove it.

Relevant criminal offenses include the following:

Legal instruments against the dissemination of anti-Semitic statements or statements condoning terrorist acts of the German Parliament (German)

Section 130 Incitement of masses

Some further links, mostly in German:

In this instance, we fully support the moderators of !europe@feddit.org to potentially remove too much rather than too little in case of legal uncertainties.

One of the triggers for the current debate is this post, which followed the removal of a comment comparing National Socialism with the current situation in Israel, which can be considered a trivialization of National Socialism. Such statements can, among other things, lead to imprisonment. Among other things, the post claimed that the removal had a Zionist motive, an accusation that should always be supported by appropriate evidence and prior to which it should be ruled out that there are alternative explanations.

We will not be removing every comment that goes even remotely in this direction, but we reserve the right to permanently ban users from feddit.org who make unfounded accusations, such as labeling our instance, admins, moderators, or other users as Nazis or Zionists, without substantial supporting arguments. This is especially the case when this is recurring behavior and not an isolated incident.

This includes content such as this post by @Deceptichum@quokk.au, who was banned from our instance shortly before that post due to multiple incitements of violence and terrorism. This person also seems to be the admin of the instance quokk.au, or at least to have good relations to the admin, since we received a censure on Fediseer from quokk.au around the same time, in which we are being accused of being Zionists and Nazis, and @Deceptichum@quokk.au has suggested to defederate quokk.au from us (archive).

If this censure by quokk.au is not withdrawn in a timely manner, we will defederate quokk.au from our side for these unsubstantiated and untrue accusations. quokk.au is a relatively small instance with only a few local users, which tried to build an alternative news community that is not on one of the “big” instances. Unfortunately, this community also seems to be a poor alternative if this is how their admin typically acts.

244 comments

  • Well then, time to block your instance.

    Elad Barashi, who has worked in the Israeli entertainment industry for several years, sparked outrage after posting on X: "Good morning, let there be a Shoa (Holocaust) in Gaza."

    In another post, he wrote, "I can't understand the people here in the State of Israel who don't want to fill Gaza with gas showers... or train cars... and finish this story! Let there be a Holocaust in Gaza."

    Zionazis know that they're protected by these idiotic, fascist laws, which is why they feel free to make these sorts of statements. They can directly invoke the Holocaust to talk about what they want happening in Gaza because they know anyone who mentions their comments will be denounced as an "antisemite."

    To quote Aaron Bushnell:

    Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now.

    Turns out what this instance would do is to protect the perpetrators from criticism.

    • Turns out what this instance would do is to protect the perpetrators from criticism.

      It's perfectly legal in Germany to criticise the government of Israel. But, for example, if you're starting to call out for the death of entire population groups or nations, this quickly becomes illegal for good reasons. Further specific laws and intricacies are mentioned and linked to in this post, which you seem to not have read or understood.

      • I understand perfectly, including the fact that you are lying. It's not limited to "calling for the death of an entire population," but also extends to opposition to the Zionist project in general.

        Israel is an apartheid ethnostate, and its identity as "Israel" is predicated on keeping Palestinians, who represent a majority of the population, as second class citizens, most of whom are denied basic human rights including the right to vote. To advocate, as any leftist should, for extending full and equal rights to Palestinians, is the same as advocating for the abolition of the Israeli state. Even if such rights were granted by the Israeli government, if the majority view was represented in government, the nation would quickly lose its identity as a Jewish ethnostate. As such, I say that from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free, and I call for a one state solution that would eliminate the beligerant, expansionist, genocidal state of Israel, just as similar states have been abolished in the past, including apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

        What I just said is not "calling for the death of entire population groups," yet it is still illegal in Germany

        As for making it illegal to call for the death of nations, yes, that is the problem. Death to the Confederate States of America. Death to Nazi Germany. Death to Imperial Japan. Death to apartheid South Africa. Death to Zionist Israel. Genocidal states do not have the right to exist and calling for the death/abolition of such a state is a legitimate political stance. Anarchists, for example, call for the deaths of every state. A ban on calling for the death/abolition of a state is a ban on all anarchists and communists, it is effectively a ban on leftism.

        • including the fact that you are lying

          You not understanding german laws does not mean that I'm lying.

          extends to opposition to the Zionist project in general

          Please define what you mean by "Zionist project", so I can respond appropriately.

          its identity as "Israel" is predicated on keeping Palestinians [...] as second class citizens

          I don't think the "israeli identity" requires discrimination of Palestinians.

          for extending full and equal rights to Palestinians, is the same as advocating for the abolition of the Israeli state

          Sounds like a false dichotomy to me. Demanding equal rights does not require the abolition of the state Israel.

          I call for a one state solution that would eliminate the [...] state of Israel

          This is stuff that can become difficult to say in Germany. You're free to critsise their military actions as well as their inhumane treatment of Palestinians. However, calling for the elimination of the entire state Israel is a problem, since German legislature affirms the protection of the life of Jews.

          What I just said is not "calling for the death of entire population groups," yet it is still illegal in Germany

          Regarding the article you've linked: this has happened right after the gruesome Hamas attacks and the mood was, understandably, extremely loaded. In a reaction the federal ministry of the interior has imposed a ban on any symbols and flags associated with Hamas. This, although ambigious and rather unproblematic before, also includes "From the river to the sea". As far as I know, not all attourney general's offices seek prosecution on this particular slogan though. And the German courts have not finally decided whether this slogan is denying the existential rights of Israel. Unfortunately, such a case has recently been retracted by the accused such that the German federal supreme court of justice won't be able to make a ruling about this very soon. See also (German article): https://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/lg-berlin-502kls2124-hamas-from-river-to-sea-rechtskraeftig

          You can perfectly argue for a (peaceful) one-state or two-state solution, as long as this doesn't infringe Israel's existential rights and does not advocate for harming the life of Jews. Currently, you just need to be mindful about using symbolisms that can be associated with Hamas.

          Regarding the death of nations (or the nation Israel in particular), see above as I covered both the infrignement of existential rights of states as well as directly harming the life of people.

          • It's a troll. Please stop feeding.

            • Hey, since you're so, 100% confident that the user you linked to before is a raging antisemite who wants to "kill all Jews," since the only possible way that anyone could interpret their comment differently is if they were a "troll" acting in bad faith, then why, as a mod of c/germany, have you not banned them from your community? Why are you still allowing such a person to access and comment in a community that you mod?

              If you won't ban them, then it's pretty obvious that you are a troll, that you're trying to pretend that they were saying something different from what they actually said, and you are fully conscious of that fact. If you actually believed it was so obvious, then there's absolutely no reason for you to not ban them.

              I look forward to seeing you ban someone for a comment defending your own moderation policy, it will be hilarious.

              • if they were a “troll” acting in bad faith, then why, as a mod of c/germany, have you not banned them from your community?

                aka doubling down, so you peeps can decry our instance as being fascist?

                • So, just to be clear, trolling and anti semitism aren't against the rules here?

                • Dude, stop it. It's the first Usenet-rule.

                  • Mod of c/germany refuses to even discuss banning someone who says they want to "kill all Jews" declaring all criticism of that decision as "trolling."

                    Not beating the Nazi allegations.

                • Aka following their claimed beliefs to their immediate logical conclusion.

                  I guess you're fine with someone you claim is an actual, overt antisemite, someone who anyone can plainly see wants to kill all Jews, just running around in your spaces, because you're afraid if you ban them, people will call your instance fascist? Is that what you're telling me?

                  The reality is that that interpretation of their comment is obviously wrong, and you all know it. You're blatantly acting in bad faith. The reason that user isn't banned is because you know that they aren't actually an antisemite who wants to kill all Jews. Because you know that my interpretation of their comment is correct, or at least, reasonable enough that other people would see it my way. But you're lying and pretending that my interpretation is not reasonable so that you can dismiss me as a "troll" and virtue signal to your in-group. That's all this is, you don't care what's actually true, and you seem to think downvotes change reality.

                  I am objectively correct about this. The reason you can't acknowledge it is this psychosis that if a Jewish person claims they're being persecuted, no matter how spurious and untrue that claim is, you have to accept it unquestionably. And you think that doing this, even to the point of coming out the other side defending genocide and Nazi shit, somehow makes you not a fascist.

          • Please define what you mean by “Zionist project”, so I can respond appropriately.

            The Zionist project is the attempt to set up, maintain, and expand a colonial Jewish ethnostate, on the incorrect assumption that a multicultural, multiethnic state that upholds the rights of minorities is impossible, and the incorrect assumption that an ethnostate is the only means of protecting the Jewish people.

            I don’t think the “israeli identity” requires discrimination of Palestinians.

            Sounds like a false dichotomy to me. Demanding equal rights does not require the abolition of the state Israel.

            If everyone in the region could vote, the state would no longer be called "Israel" and it would no longer be a specifically Jewish state, because Palestinians are the majority. They would no doubt vote to change the name to Palestine. ONLY through suppression of their rights can there be a state there called "Israel."

            However, calling for the elimination of the entire state Israel is a problem, since German legislature affirms the protection of the life of Jews.

            Regarding the death of nations (or the nation Israel in particular), see above as I covered both the infrignement of existential rights of states as well as directly harming the life of people.

            What does "eliminating the state" have to do with "not protecting the life of Jews?"

            When South Africa was eliminated, some of the white colonizers chose to stay in the new state, many went to Israel so they could keep doing apartheid, and others went back to where they came or to other places. Just because their state was destroyed doesn't mean that the people were exterminated. Same thing with the elimination of the Nazi German state. If the destruction of a state was equivalent with extermination, then we wouldn't be having this conversation because there would be no Germans.

            If I say that Nazi Germany didn't have a right to exist, does that constitute "directly harming the life of German people?" Yes or no, please.

            Regarding the article you’ve linked: this has happened right after the gruesome Hamas attacks and the mood was, understandably, extremely loaded.

            Oh, I've heard that one before. "We all went a little crazy after 9/11." Used to justify all sorts of abuses, from Guantanamo Bay to Abu Ghraib. Has any miscarriage of justice, ever, not had some kind of excuse like that? Was Adolf Hitler's seizure of power not a response to the "extremely loaded mood" following the Reichstag Fire?

            Of course, your side gets to make excuses like that, but if I argue that Palestinian violence is motivated by the "extremely loaded mood" of living under a genocidal system of apartheid, somehow, I doubt you'll extend the same courtesy. Seems like it's only when white people do bad shit that excuses like that matter.

            You can perfectly argue for a (peaceful) one-state or two-state solution, as long as this doesn’t infringe Israel’s existential rights

            You can argue for a one-state solution, so long as it doesn't infringe on Israel's existential rights? So then, you can't argue for a one state solution at all, unless it's a single Israeli state in which Palestinians are denied their basic human rights.

            • Thanks for clarifying what you mean by "the Zionist project". To put it in context, you previously said:

              It's not limited to "calling for the death of an entire population," but also extends to opposition to the Zionist project in general.

              Based on your provided definition, I can assert my previous comment. Meaning: it is indeed perfectly legal in Germany to critisize and discuss the actions and motifs of zionist factions within the Israeli government who seek to create such an ethnostate.

              If everyone in the region could vote, the state would no longer be called "Israel" and it would no longer be a specifically Jewish state, because Palestinians are the majority. They would no doubt vote to change the name to Palestine. ONLY through suppression of their rights can there be a state there called "Israel."

              According to Wikipedia, going by the jewish population alone, Israel hosts 7.2 million Jews. According to worldometers.com (which in turn utilizes data by the UN as per mentioned sources) there are about 5,6 million Palestinians (and about 1,9 million have an Israeli citizenship as per IMEU. So, assuming everyone could vote and each Palestinian would vote for renaming the state while each Jew would vote for keeping the name, no name change would occur in such a democratic vote due to the larger jewish population count. Thus, it appears your claim is factually incorrect.
              Feel free to provide numbers and sources in case I've missed something.

              What does "eliminating the state" have to do with "not protecting the life of Jews?"

              Although I agree in the particular point that abolishing a state does not necessitate the elimination of its population, this is the common association for many people, especially in the german legislature and judiciary. That, in turn, is tied to many occasions of people who indeed called for the death of jews in conjunction with the destruction of the state Israel. I.e., it has become synonymous. As long as you make your distinction clear though (mentioning that you don't mean to harm the life of any people), I see less problems with making such statements. Some remain however, since Israel is a recongized state in the international community, manifested in international law. Therefore, calling for the abolition of the state of Israel can become demagoguery under german law if placed in a hateful or violence-gloryfying context.
              So, long story short, as long as you make your context clear, I see less problems. However, often these contexts are less clear, mere "lip services" or the context makes the demagoguery nature very clear. Therefore, I find removing such content is justified and wise for admins of a social media platform who don't want to risk legal problems themselves for possibly being not strict enough. Better safe than sorry, so to speak. If you've got a problem with that, take it up with german politicians, not mods of a platform who try their best to keep it safe and legal under the respective jurisdiction.

              Oh, I've heard that one before. "We all went a little crazy after 9/11." Used to justify all sorts of abuses, from Guantanamo Bay to Abu Ghraib. Has any miscarriage of justice, ever, not had some kind of excuse like that? Was Adolf Hitler's seizure of power not a response to the "extremely loaded mood" following the Reichstag Fire?

              Are you really equating Guantanome Bay and Abu Ghraib as well as the atrocities commited by Adolf Hitler to a german ministry banning symbolisms tied to Hamas? That's a teeny-weeny-bit different in intensity and horror, don't you think?

              if I argue that Palestinian violence is motivated by the "extremely loaded mood" of living under a genocidal system of apartheid, somehow, I doubt you'll extend the same courtesy.

              Again: comparing murder to banning symbols.
              Apart from that:
              In my personal opinion, there are only extremely rare occasions where killing people is justified. And in all of them, it's never justified to kill innocent civilians. So you're right: I don't extend the same courtesy to Hamas. Nor do I extend it to the Israeli military carpet bombing civilian habitation areas.

              So then, you can't argue for a one state solution at all, unless it's a single Israeli state in which Palestinians are denied their basic human rights.

              I think I've addressed this sufficiently before. False dichotomy from my point of view.

              • Meaning: it is indeed perfectly legal in Germany to critisize and discuss the actions and motifs of zionist factions within the Israeli government who seek to create such an ethnostate.

                Every significant faction within the Israeli government wants to maintain the ethnostate which already exists. Advocating against an Israeli ethnostate is advocating against Israel's continued existence.

                Feel free to provide numbers and sources in case I’ve missed something.

                This topic appears to be more debated than I realized, but here is a source claiming the opposite.

                No doubt, if Palestinians were given equal rights, more Palestinians would return to their homes, and if they were no longer being killed before reaching old age, it would not be long before they were a majority, if they are not already.

                Although I agree in the particular point that abolishing a state does not necessitate the elimination of its population, this is the common association for many people, especially in the german legislature and judiciary. That, in turn, is tied to many occasions of people who indeed called for the death of jews in conjunction with the destruction of the state Israel. I.e., it has become synonymous.

                More like, it's become synonymous because Zionists want to make their fascist cause synonymous with the wellbeing of all Jews, so that they can dismiss all criticism of it as antisemitism. This is how it is now in the US as well, according to the state department, though it is a recent change that nobody voted for, going hand-in-hand with unconstitutional attempts to criminalize BDS, to make it a crime not to buy Israeli goods. It's all bullshit.

                There are many Jews, such as those involved in the organization Jewish Voice for Peace, who are critical of the state of Israel, and the only ones who have any problems with them are fringe Nazis, and Zionists who see them as race traitors. These attempts to equate Israel with Jews are attempts to shift blame away from the fascist and genocidal state of Israel and onto innocent Jews who have nothing to do with it, and it plays directly into the far-right's hands. Zionists, meanwhile, are generally fine with actual antisemitism as long as the person supports their precious state - for example, the ADL defending Elon Musk's Nazi salute. If antisemitism increases abroad, it just encourages more Jews to come to Israel and validates Israel's founding lie that multicultural, multiethnic societies cannot exist harmoniously.

                don’t want to risk legal problems

                This is a cowardly and untrue excuse. Nobody should be hosting their instance in their own country, where the police would have jurisdiction (it's just bad practice), but also, it's very obvious from talking to, like, any of you, that you agree with these unjust laws and that you only hide behind them as an excuse, to make your position easier to defend.

                Are you really equating Guantanome Bay and Abu Ghraib as well as the atrocities commited by Adolf Hitler to a german ministry banning symbolisms tied to Hamas?

                No, I am not. Where did I ever claim that those are "equivalent?" I merely compared the two, much like when I compare Israel to Nazi Germany, which it shares many similarities to, I am not saying that the two states are exactly the same.

                The point is that this "extremely loaded mood" is a bullshit excuse. The law is the law. Regardless of the "mood" there is legal precedent for people being tried and convicted for saying "from the river to the sea." Future legal cases will be able to cite that precedent. Furthermore, if German laws are entirely subject to the "mood" at the time, then there is no telling what you could be punished for, anything could be ruled illegal if the "mood" is "elevated" enough. You get how that's worse, right?

                E:

                since Israel is a recongized state in the international community, manifested in international law.

                Can't believe I overlooked this. Did you really just try to invoke international law to defend Israel? Are you being serious? Are we talking about the same brazenly expansionist and beligerant Israel that's been, for example, illegally occupying the Golan Heights for decades, in open defiance of international law and the UN?

                • Every significant faction within the Israeli government wants to maintain the ethnostate which already exists.

                  I don't know about that, since I have not enough knowledge about internal Israeli politics. However, even if, that doesn't make untrue what I said before.

                  This topic appears to be more debated than I realized, but here is a source claiming the opposite.

                  Thanks for the link. Until independent and official numbers are out, I fear neither you nor me will know how the proportions really are.

                  it's become synonymous because Zionists want to make their fascist cause synonymous with the wellbeing of all Jews

                  I disagree with that. Everytime I get knowledge about yet another person who has called for the death of all jews and the destruction of the state Israel, there are no Zionists necessary to tie those two statements together, or at least be cautious about it everytime someone says something like that.

                  going hand-in-hand with unconstitutional attempts to criminalize BDS, to make it a crime not to buy Israeli goods

                  What is BDS?

                  This is a cowardly and untrue excuse.

                  Yes, not wanting to go to prison or pay hefty fines is very cowardly indeed for a hobby project you don't get paid for. How can they?! Those cruel power-tripping admins and mods! They should all go to jail such that people can do whatever the fuck they want on the respective instance! /s

                  Nobody should be hosting their instance in their own country, where the police would have jurisdiction (it's just bad practice)

                  I think there are many good reasons to host an instance in one's own country. Well at least from a european perspective.

                  but also, it's very obvious from talking to, like, any of you, that you agree with these unjust laws and that you only hide behind them as an excuse, to make your position easier to defend.

                  Generalizing over all users now, are we?
                  You haven't even asked whether I agree with all of these laws and ordinances. You just jumped to conclusions, like any other internet user as well (look, I am generalizing now too. It's so fun! Shall we continue? Yeah, I'll continue:) it's like Carl Gustav Jung said: "Thinking is hard, that's why most people judge."
                  Maybe stay off from the internet for a day and calm your tits.

                  I'm done here, you don't seem to be interested in a nuanced and well-intentioned discussion. If you want to hate the mods, the entire instance and Germany as a whole, go on. I don't give a fuck. I just tried to provide you with a more nuanced information basis so that you don't jump to such false conclusions.

                  No, I am not. Where did I ever claim that those are "equivalent?" I merely compared the two

                  Here:

                  Oh, I've heard that one before. "We all went a little crazy after 9/11." Used to justify all sorts of abuses, from Guantanamo Bay to Abu Ghraib. Has any miscarriage of justice, ever, not had some kind of excuse like that? Was Adolf Hitler's seizure of power not a response to the "extremely loaded mood" following the Reichstag Fire?

                  Your comparison builds upon finding similarities, which I find suitable to the extent of "has any miscarriage of justice, ever, not had some kind of excuse like that?". But using Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and Adolf Hitler as reference examples for a german ordinance that merely bans some symbolisms tied to Hamas blasts the balance extremely. Don't you see how your paragraph gives the impression of equating those instances?

                  The law is the law.

                  It's not a law though, just an ordinance. And even one that is in part still disputed, as I've made clear before.

                  Future legal cases will be able to cite that precedent.

                  And the defendants will have the opportunity to object and elevate their case to the German supreme court of justice. A similar case was sadly retracted before by the defendant, as I've also mentioned. There is much debate about the legality of the use of this phrase, which I also have mentioned before. I am feeling like a parrot for repeating myself, but I feel like you're willingly ignoring these important details.

                  if German laws are entirely subject to the "mood" at the time, then there is no telling what you could be punished for, anything could be ruled illegal if the "mood" is "elevated" enough. You get how that's worse, right?

                  Yes. Luckily, a loaded mood was not the only reason for this and we're not that deranged yet to make everything illegal that doesn't fit the right mood.

                  Don't expect further replies from my side. I feel like I have said enough on this topic and you don't signal to me the willingness to discuss this in good faith with me.

                  • I just tried to provide you with a more nuanced information basis so that you don’t jump to such false conclusions.

                    You tried to lie to me. You didn't even make mention of the phrase's, let's call it, dubious legal status. I had to bring it up, and you continue to downplay it on the basis that the convictions could, possibly be appealed.

                    Everything else aside, that's the key point. You are a liar.

                    If you want to hate the mods, the entire instance and Germany as a whole, go on

                    Thank you, I will. You genocidal maniacs should never have been trusted with a state. You haven't changed. Only managed to stop killing Jews, but PoC are still fair game, just as before.

                    This seems as good a point as any to follow through on blocking your instance.

    • Bro but it's illegal 😭 if you don't follow nazi law to oppose the Nazis how are you any better?

      Fucking cowards

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