I don't understand some people

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I could watch TOS, TNG caused me anxiety for whatever reason, watched some DS9.
TOS - nice and cozy, it's old minded, but well meant mostly. I'm a Star Wars person. Also liked Babylon V and Stargate SG-1.
TNG - seen very little of it, get bored because of not tracking what even happens there and what's the purpose of those scenes, but I have understood that there's maybe something smart there somewhere.
DS9 - I didn't like it, really seemed to involve a lot of virtue signaling and identity politics. I don't like the former because it's all signals and no action, I don't like the latter because you are disadvantaged if you don't fit well to a stereotype of some protected group in some dimension, and nobody really does, except for brainless activists. Spherical libertarian ethics in vacuum or even spherical Marxist ethics in vacuum would fit me better, but as we all know, these are mostly represented IRL by idiots.
So - DS9 is bad. It's a paper model alternative to Babylon V with vaguely Trek-ish ideas, except Babylon V is much deeper (but also inconsistent and generally nuts, which is fine, the universe is too). It's too morally sterile as compared to TOS and TNG.
Haven't seen any of other "old" Trek.
Haven't seen any of the "new" Star Trek, if it's similar to the "new" Star Wars, then nothing of value was lost.
The point is ... I agree complaining about "woke" in Trek is strange, but it's strange for any sci-fi to be honest. These people probably think Heinlein wasn't "woke", but I'm almost certain he would be hated by them if he lived in our time. He did references to jungle law, human predatory nature and the idea that some human society developments are degenerate, but all these things are more specific than just mentioning them, for a real discussion about humanity.
- I don't get it, it's like we watched two different Star Trek franchises. And while producing some real bullcrap, new Star Wars has some of the best Star Wars ever produced with Rogue One and Andor (also, Rebels is surprisingly good).
  Also I do think virtue signalling and identity political do have some value to some capacity.
  But calling DS9 'too morally sterile' is just baffling me. Have you even watched episodes like 'For the uniform'?
  
  Also I do think virtue signalling and identity political do have some value to some capacity.
  Well, there are some cases you can assume a thing and some cases you can't. Sometimes you can trust the other side to send the message of the right size and form in one piece over TCP, sometimes you can't. Say, if you are a Gopher server, you can. Sometimes you can wait longer, sometimes you can't. Sometimes you can't condition stopping some process by waiting for a response, sometimes you can't.
  It's the same in life. You may see the good parts of something and not see the bad parts. Or the other way around. Life also doesn't have fairness, you can easily encounter a top level boss after just creating a character, in game terms. And no justice, no error processing, nothing of the sort.
  So - answering your question, I don't remember a single DS9 episode right now, just my impression of their structure and level of complexity.
  Rogue One and Andor are fine, but I wouldn't call them some of the best Star Wars made, more like the only Star Wars made since Disney acquisition. They are set in the same universe, more or less, that I can accept. And they touch upon the same things good parts of the old universe did. And they make references to things I didn't expect to be referenced under Disney. I can agree they are good. Probably just things shown I imagined differently, but then my imagination was trying to make them feel safe, similar to the second paragraph here, while Andor shows it all as a looming failure, which for may intents and purposes that phase of the rebellion indeed was.
  
  I have no idea what you are talking about in your first two paragraphs.
  So - answering your question, I don't remember a single DS9 episode right now, just my impression of their structure and level of complexity.
  Maybe you can have another go. Especially the Dominion War episodes are really good, but also there are other really good episodes.
  Rogue One and Andor are fine, but I wouldn't call them some of the best Star Wars made
  They are though. They are definitely better than the prequels and arguably at least as good as the OT, at least from a story telling and movie making perspective.
  Andor doesn't show failure though, it shows how fascist systems work and how fascism affects the 'little people'.
  
  I have no idea what you are talking about in your first two paragraphs.
  This sentence looks as if implying it were my fault. And of course it is, but that'd be any misunderstanding, with some other common traits of misunderstandings, like that it's symmetrically the other side's fault too.
  Meant that you never know the upsides and the downsides of something for real. Just in some limited model, with your own imperfect projection of the universe.
  Maybe you can have another go.
  Feel more like another attempt at TNG, but yes, maybe.
  They are though. They are definitely better than the prequels and arguably at least as good as the OT, at least from a story telling and movie making perspective.
  You are right, of course, in at least one of the myriad of possible interpretations.
  In mine half the good things about them are a bit masqueraded references to how the old SW EU felt, and not original decisions. And in the rest there are flaws as bad as those of prequels. No way they are better than the OT. They may be better than prequels, if we are not taking a huge part of prequels' atmosphere and removing it from flaws, calling it author's style (I do ; I don't, however, ignore parts that seem left as they were because Lucas lost the interest in deepening them or finishing them, I actually suspect he's a bit on the spectrum too).
  I also don't consider prequels obviously bad, which seems to be such a common opinion that its bearers often can't elaborate on it, other than vague terms like "bad dialogue" and "bad pacing" and "doesn't make sense". I would, of course, welcome good supporting points on that.
  Andor doesn’t show failure though, it shows how fascist systems work and how fascism affects the ‘little people’.
  That's what a huge part of Star Wars is about, except "fascism" is a word a bit tasteless for the more generic thing.
  By "looming failure" I mean Luthen&co's approach to planning, risk and lack of backups, and that they also act like agents of something far more powerful than the Rebellion in that stage. In the EU at that point they'd be all surveilled by ISB 3 steps into the chain from anybody who touched any of the suspicious senators. The private moments and conversations would be intentionally arranged and rare. Instead they act like Soviet agents in USA or vice versa, as if knowing that at worst they'll be exchanged for someone. Almost like ambassadors.
  OK, I guess we might still see that Luthen was just an upper society cynical, but naive type, and in the end learn that the Emperor watched them all every moment and laughed.
  
  Meant that you never know the upsides and the downsides of something for real. Just in some limited model, with your own imperfect projection of the universe.
  That's just some blank, insignificant statement, either worthless for any discussion or an attempt invalidate discussions.
  That, however, seems to be your tactic anyway. You seem wanting to make everything about how everything is smarter of perspective and interpretation, and that is not the kind of discussion I find fruitful, so I stop discussing with you now. Have a nice day.
- Agree completely about Heinlein. The opinions people have about what he would have agreed or disagreed with are baffling to me. It's like the only things they read are Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers, and Beyond This Horizon and they believe he was advocating a position instead of trying to get you to think and ask questions.
  I'm so tired of the idea that "an armed society is a polite society" is any kind of good or that it is a society that should be longed for. Same for mandatory service.
  
  It's also that things shown in his books are orthogonal to modern popular categories.
  IIRC Door into Summer has something resembling socialism, not shown as good or bad, actually shown as "everything both different and still the same on the ape planet", especially the "recent news" moment after unfreezing when I last re-read it, it's amazing how that didn't get old since the book was written, you can feel that it touches exactly the same strings it was intended to touch then, full feeling of presence.
  IIRC Starship Troopers has a few moments clearly showing flaws in the system, Rico clearly feeling that was wrong, and the general mood being "we know it's not ideal, we just needed something and the previous one broke" with a bit of pretense and moralism and importance, like in everything such IRL.
  IIRC Orphans of the Sky can illustrate any political position conceivable, that values a human.
  IIRC Citizen of the Galaxy is really hard to perceive as something he's usually accused of supporting.
  And so on.

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