What does materialism have to do with communism?
What does materialism have to do with communism?
I feel like I understand communist theory pretty well at a basic level, and I believe in it, but I just don't see what part of it requires belief in an objective world of matter. I don't believe in matter and I'm still a communist. And it seems that in the 21st century most people believe in materialism but not communism. What part of "people should have access to the stuff they need to live" requires believing that such stuff is real? After all, there are nonmaterial industries and they still need communism. Workers in the music industry are producing something that nearly everyone can agree only exists in our heads. And they're still exploited by capital, despite musical instruments being relatively cheap these days, because capital owns the system of distribution networks and access to consumers that is the means of profitability for music. Spotify isn't material, it's a computer program. It's information. It's a thoughtform. Yet it's still a means of production that ought to be seized for the liberation of the musician worker. What does materialism have to do with any of this?
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I missed out on a lot of discussion, but if it hasn't been linked, I am once again asking every Hexbear to read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.
The gist of what Marxists believe is that all things come from a material reality, even intangible things like music, religion, and ideas. They come from the human brain, which is itself influenced by the material world it observes and interacts with. So I would say that even though Spotify and the songs on there aren't "materials" in a certain sense, they are still things that require a material reality to produce them. You cant have music or spotify without musicians and programmers.
Yeah, I used to agree with marxists on all that when I was a baby commie, but then I got radicalised further to the left and I no longer believe in a material reality essential to cognition or perception. And I don't see how agreeing with Marx on all that is necessary to maintain a belief in communism. I'm sure it's helpful if you're already a realist and you need a realist reason to become a communist, but I don't think it's useful at all for idealists. That's my synthesis between what the realists said and what I said.
That's not getting more left, sounds more like getting confused about solipsism or something.
Have you read Hegel? I think you don't really get the philosophical foundations of Marxism but that's the domain in which you are trying to make criticisms.
I think the materialist view is important to understand what drives people and what drives history. You can believe in communism, but materialism can help u understand the reality under which you live and through which you must bring forth communism. Bringing forth communism is difficult enough but probably impossible if you have no understanding of the historical period you are living through, the material conditions that make people reactionaries or bootlikers or demsocs etc. It's by looking at the material reality that you can understand (ie. hopefully predict) the actions taken by capitalists and imperialists, the contradictions reigning, the material needs and wants driving things.
of course marxists can say communism is inevitable to follow from capitalism and understanding what i mention above is not necessary so i dunno
But I understand all of those things without materalism. I understand history and science and labour relations as products of the human mind, and I can apply discoveries of the scientific method to make accurate predictions about the perceptual world. And I understand why people adopt certain positions in relation to class struggle and how they're related to the perceived world. No materialism needed.
I understand history and science and labour relations as products of the human mind
this is an idealist perspective common among liberals. materialists view it in the opposite direction: the human mind is a product of the material world. our the natural (material) world amd our relationship to labor and production shape our understanding of the world and our consciousness. the world isnt changed by ideas, ideas are changed by the world. actions lead to societal change. liberals think if a majority of people thought a certain way, the world will change. Marxists hold a materialist perspective that opposes this and instead posits that society changes when people act to enact change
I wish that was true. If liberals weren't such huge realists they'd be less transphobic. I mean, I've even taken transphobia from liberals on Hexbear who had a problem with my gender for being incompatible with reality. Realists always act like that. If mainstream liberals were idealists, it wouldn't have taken until last week for me to be open about my gender on a public site. I wouldn't be scared of them doing hate crimes at me for being unreal.
i said it was common among liberals, not predominant. in this context, realists believe that political and social change come solely from those that seek to rule. might makes right and all that. it doesnt really have much to do w bigotry other than realists tend to hold more bigoted views bc those in power uphold bigotry. idealists are still usually bigoted in some way just bc of how they are socialized
and i have seen the ppl on here doubting your gender, which is rude and im sorry you have to see that. but the majority here have been acting in good faith toward you and most questions have been to actually learn abt dronegender/swarmgender and NPD acceptance. ik its hard to find a community that doesnt immediately reject you, im sorry, ik that must be hard, but try to act in good faith bc a lot of ur activity here seems like attempts to stir the pot
Yeah, I am acting in good faith. And I do appreciate the open mindedness and support from mods. I've seen people come to understand my gender and neurotype and that's awesome. So I would characterise a lot of the people who initially reacted with hostility as well meaning liberals. Whereas the leftists who already had an education on xenogenders accepted me instantly, like that one angelgender person.
But I have a whole lot experience of denialism of my gender identity, and since I don't expect anyone here to have been in the same subreddits or discord servers or local orgs as I have and seen this for themselves, talking about through-lines that I've seen here is the best way to make my claims verifiable for others and prove I know what I'm talking about and I'm talking about it in good faith. So I talk about the realist bigotry here as a case study to help others understand the rest of my life. And the bottom line is: people who put reality above feelings are cruel to trans people. Trans "allies" who have been convinced reality is compatible with binary trans people are usually still enbyphobic. It's only the nonrealists who act with true acceptance. Because I will always have to justify my existence to realists, and even if science and kindness are on my side, it'll still be a struggle to get them to open their minds for the next marginalised experience
we’re all leftists here, liberals usually show their ass eventually and usually dont last long. but even the most convicted communists can have reactionary hangups. im sure most of the ppl who were acting uncivil or even hostile to you abt ur xenogender have come around to it after listening to ur explanation and explanations from other users. ur right tho, the rarity of xenogender ppl means that there are likely many on this site who have those reactionary hangups regarding xenogenders.
people who put reality above feelings are cruel to trans people
feelings are a part of reality. your mind is physical (im not going to debate spirituality with anyone, but denying that biochemical reactions in the brain regulate emotions and thoughts is antithetical to understanding the world). dialectical materialism maintains that there is a dialectical relationship between ideas and the physical world— the physical world shapes the social world and the social world has an effect on the physical world, and the relationship between the two form “reality” as understood by humanity
we’re all leftists here
Left and right are relative, not absolute. Americans think that Joe Biden is a leftist because they're all the way on the right. Norwegians think that social democrats are on the left because they're on the moderate right. Hardcore communists think that demsocs are on the right, and some neo Nazis would think Reagan was a leftist if they met him.
I'm further left than the average Hexbear user, so from my point of view the MLs and anarchists who don't understand far left theory are centrists. They're further right than me, but I'm willing to compromise and accept those people as being "in the middle".
You are explaining an idealist metaphysics. Marx didn't truck in metaphysics. History, science, labor relations and their interrelations is materialism. Whether there is a real reality or whether your idealism is metaphysically correct is immaterial to dialectical materialism..