Speak up now: What should our community guidelines be?
Speak up now: What should our community guidelines be?
Hello everyone! If you have not yet seen it, @ernest has handed over moderation to @Drusas @Entropywins @ Frog-Brawler (the tag system consistently messes up the link to FB's username lol) and myself here in !politics.
First order of business is for you all to weigh in on the community guidelines that you would like to see here. As the mod team, we will weigh all suggestions and then add them to the side bar as magazine/community rules. I'm going to give about 48 hours for users to see this thread and add a comment or discuss.
Please know that the goal is not to create an echo chamber here in !politics, but we want to ensure that there is not an encroachment of rage bait and toxicity. It brings down the quality of the magazine and it discourages community engagement.
For the time being, the mod tools are pretty sparse, so I want to manage expectations about the scope of moderation we're able to do right now. For now, our touch will be light. Expect increased functionality as time progresses, though. We have 3 weeks of reports on file, so please know we see them. Give us some time to establish how to handle those before you start to see any movement.
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I'd say the biggest ones for me are:
- Be civil
- Be on topic (that's probably a thread on its own to define what that should be)
- No editorializing/opinion/commentary in title or post body (save it for the comments)
These are okay, with the exception of giving commentary in the post body. Commentary in the post body might be a good way to tell why you think this could be especially important.
I'll piggy back on your response here to add in that I would prefer that posters copy and paste the nut graf of the news story into the body of the post.
"Nut graf" is a journalism term for the paragraph that clearly delineates what the article is about. It's what makes the piece newsworthy. "The paragraph that explains the story in a nutshell." The nut graf usually appears in the first three grafs of any current events piece.
I think if this is included in the body text (willing to invite more than just this paragraph, but bare minimum this graf), then readers can determine if the larger piece is worth their time to read or important.
I completely agree with this one. I do this out of habit and didn't even think to suggest it.
I think it's important since headlines are often just clickbait and the nut graf can cut through some if that to help you decide if you want to click through to the article.
I would probably focus on the lede instead of the nut graf. At least the first paragraph that answers who, what, how, where, why is of importance. Getting into the nut graf might be somewhat complex in some articles, as with many (I'm currently looking at a Forbes article) the nut graf is bullet-point summarized after the lede.
Or maybe either one will do. Although I'd believe that contributors will probably post the lede over the nut graf of an article due to ease or confusion.
Not trying to split hairs with you, but we are talking about the same paragraph with different terms.
Lede: A clash at city hall today resulted in a rushed vote called during a late night session today, drawing criticisms from civil rights advocates.
Nut graf: Proposition HB (number) had been backed by state legislators from almost exclusively one political party. The bill would impact certain people in this specific way. About 150 protestors packed the gallery and spilled out into the foyer as the leader of the bill's opposition in the state house, state rep So-and-so from the name of county district, lead a 15 hour filibuster that was interrupted prematurely by the lieutenant governor calling a vote on the bill just before the special session ended.
Usually the first paragraph is the lede, while the nut graf is the next paragraph or set of paragraphs.
For instance (the article I was referencing): here
The lede:
Twitter’s revenue from U.S. advertising in April was down 59% from the previous year, the New York Times reported Monday, after major advertisers left the social media platform following billionaire Elon Musk’s takeover—though Musk claimed two months ago the site was “breaking even.”
Nut graf:
Twitter made $88 million in U.S.-based advertising sales during a five week period starting April 1, down 59% from April 2022, the Times reported, citing an internal presentation and seven Twitter employees.
The social media company estimates its U.S. ad revenue will be down at least 56% each week in May, compared to last year, per the Times.
Twitter’s global ad revenue this year is estimated to be 28% lower than it was in 2022, at around $3 billion, according to research firm Insider Intelligence, as Twitter’s top 50 advertisers are spending markedly less since Musk took over the company in October.
I think either or would be acceptable in the body of the post, however I do believe that most users will post the lede over the nut graf just because it's the first paragraph and the most convenient.
EDIT
At least that's my interpretation of the difference between the two. You might be correct in that we're describing the same things, however I see a lot of articles structured like the linked article in Forbes. Seemingly where a lede and a nut graf are both present.
Yes. We are on the same page. Are you also a former/current journalist? I copy edited for a regional paper for a few years.
I think to avoid confusion in the future, perhaps the rule should be quite expansive on this front to accept either. Best practices and whatnot.
I'll take that as a very nice compliment!
No I am not a journalist. I did however I edit a few yearbooks in my time, and I was at one point married to a journalist. Also somewhere along the way I was taught some basic journalism...Some basic journalism unit in English class during high school.
It's shocking that I remember some basic media literacy, or remember the basic premise of how news is supposed to be written even if I have to Google a couple of terms I forgot here and there.
The few times I've tried posting article links, kbin automatically copied the first X words of the article into the post body. I don't suppose that includes the Nut graf?
No, usually this is only the first 50 words or first 2 sentences. I have noticed a few posts like this, now that you mentioned it. I thought the users were doing it - didn't know that was a functionality of pulling in an article for submission.
Thanks for sharing!
No problem. You've got your work cut out for you, good luck!
I think that can still be done in a follow up comment.
Some reasons why I suggested the rule:
- It can anchor the whole discussion and responses to OP commentary need to be made at top level. i.e., discussion may become centered around the commentary instead of the article. Especially on potentially polarizing topics.
- If I have a different commentary to give than OP, should I resubmit the article with a different editorial?
- Up/downvotes will be on the quality/merit of the article and not combined with the opinion of the submitter.
- If the commentary doesn't fit within other rules, then the whole post needs to be removed and the article re-submitted.
- Any commentary can always be done in the comments, so we're not really taking anything away.
As we collectively discuss this and come to a conclusion that most of us feel a sense of ownership over, I just want to state point blank that I do not want to see duplicate posts with the same link just because two users have opposite viewpoints on the ramifications of the news.
However, I'm fine with one poster giving CNN's article on a newsworthy event and another user posting the Associated Press's article of the same event. Those two news sources (among others) will have different perspectives, voices, and information. That lends itself to robust community engagement, to me.
Your #3 is a really good point. If someone posts their opinion in the body, there are likely to be downvotes based on that opinion even when the article has its own merits.