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I mean the frustration is real, but the channels are what are accused of being engineered.
The don't vote and protest vote crowds are basically purpose built to make it as hard as possible for America to even slow itself down, let alone begin reversing course.
"I have serious objections to the major legacies of discrimination and failures to address poverty in this country! Let's take the exact actions that make it more likely for power to end up in the hands of the people who think the problem is we're not doing enough of that!"
That is the narrative people accuse Russia and China of spreading, and it's hardly a coincidence that this crescendos in exactly two times, 1) just before an election, and 2) just after a major consequence comes down as a result of the election that was meddled with.
I'm pretty sure that at least at the Old Place, despair-trolling is very much a thing,
Right-wing boiler-room operations, Putin's troll farms, and independent dick heads have lots of reasons to sow apathy and despair.
Permanently Deleted
Are you discussing ways of fixing your political system in your third spaces? Are you organizing grassroots political movements that want to break the status quo and the class wars? Or are you just antagonizing everyone on the internet over a zero-sum choice you made up in your head? Or maybe you're just agitating because you find it funny? Either way, you are not contributing positively to this issue, and your tribalism shows.
Didn't the "vote for Genocide Joe he's the lesser of two evils" win last time? How's that going for the votées?
Better than the alternative.
Same as always. Badly, but not as badly as if we had voted to end democracy with Trump.
Marching slowly towards a cliff is no better than doing it quickly. Unless the course is changed the outcome will be the same.
That doesn't mean it's okay to sprint off the edge without a parachute. Of course we're working to change course too. It's not an overnight thing.
Well he's one of the most productive presidents in modern history even in spite of the congressional odds stacked against him, so pretty well all things considered.
How are all those judges that Trump got to appoint because of the pretentious assholes who insist on calling Biden "Genocide Joe" doing?
Biden actually just tried to hide the arms deal with israel because he hates democracy and loves genocide.
https://truthout.org/articles/biden-wants-arms-deals-with-israel-to-be-done-in-complete-secrecy/
But let's keep deflecting by pointing to orange man that's all the Biden dreamers got going for them now.
You know you're talking to a real leftist when they walk right up to the line of unironically quoting "orange man bad"
That's a line that a real leftist would totally be able to choke out before instinctively committing ritual suicide out of how idiotic it would be to say that.
I'm just simplifying your amazing arguments that are so morally void that the only reason you're defending one party is that the other party is worse.
I'm not stupid enough to vote for either of those parties.
"I have serious objections to the major legacies of discrimination and failures to address poverty in this country! Let's take the exact actions that make it more likely for power to end up in the hands of the people who think the problem is we're not doing enough of that!"
if both sides are captured by corporatists, then neither side is acceptable and for the same reason. to pretend that my objection is, or should be, based solely on how severely the state is destroying us, and not whether the state should even exist, is to overlook the actual problem in favor of your favorite team.
fuck you.
The problem is that, as always, the sides aren't the same. One side is ravenous to begin killing as many Palestinian children as possible, and the other is tepid and wants to make sure we're still sending sufficient aid to our allies in Ukraine fighting against a war of extinction.
Both sides want to aid in the death of Palestinian children, and for that both are reprehensible, but you can see that one is still preferable to the other. Voting for neither helps the worst side. I'm not going to pretend that it is easy to push past the Biden administrations crimes, but it will be harder to swallow a Ukrainian loss as a result of a Republican demagogue coming to power.
Voting for neither helps the worst side.
the only vote that helps either side is a vote for that side.
you won't get me to endorse either of these evils.
A vote is not an endorsement. It's especially not a personal endorsement because it's fucking anonymous. Get over yourself.
in the trolley scenario, do you change your answer based on whether others are watching? i don't, and I won't be responsible for giving bad people power.
That thinking got Trump elected.
What really got Trump elected was democrats wanting to uphold the status quo and thus pushing for a worse republican party so that they can position themselves as heroes by comparison: https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
There's some mental gymnastics in this one. Congrats on ignoring the consequences of first past the post, making it all the Democrats responsibility, and absolving Republicans of all guilt. Oh not to mention, ignoring those who don't vote because "both sides are the same" even though anyone with eyeballs can realize that's not true.
uncountable hours of free press got trump elected
people voting for trump got trump elected
clinton backing trump in the primary got trump elected
Youve already decided to, but I get why you feel like you need to bury yourself in the sand.
this seems like some kind of snarky rhetoric, but I must be too obtuse to understand it
Its not rhetoric, and its really not even that snarky.
But after seeing your other comments I 100% do not expect you to understand normal human conversation, so dont stress too much about it buddy
this is more rhetoric totally off topic, meant only as a personal attack
You use a lot of words wrong, which really highlights my point.
wrong.
It means your ignoring the obvious and negative things. "Burying your head in the sand" is a very common idiom.
Quit bitching and start your revolution, then.
Tell me you're a white straight dude without telling me you're a white straight dude. That or that you get all your politics from them.
Imagine having the privilege to only be under the corporate thumb in this country and then turn around and shit on everyone else in the position of wishing they only had that to worry about.
Women lost the right to abortions because of people who voted like you. Bush happened because of people who voted like you. Shit, Bernie probably lost because of people who voted like you, because y'all can't even be assed to turn out at the damned primaries.
Nah man, fuck you.
Edit: you know you've touched a nerve when the porcelain americans respond by attempting to spam your inbox over how you totally didn't just touch that nerve XD
Remember when democrats had the ability to act on reproductive rights and then this was what democrats did when they had the power to do something about it?: https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430
That was after Obama said it was a top priority during his campaign. Democrats are incredibly skilled at claiming they care, not doing anything to actually back that up, and then when people don't turn up to vote for their no-acting-asses, they wag their fingers and moralize from atop their high horses. Sure though, why don't you lecture some homeless white man about how privileged he is, you fucking racist? I'm sure that'll win you votes.
Yeah how dare Obama use the miniscule window in which he had a hypothetically filibuster proof majority to do something as pointless as passing laws that stop the healthcare system from being exponentially worse than it currently is, which also required employers to provide reproductive care access before SCOTUS struck that down.
Gotta love the porcelain americans trying to gaslight victims over how it's actually your fault they don't do the miniscule thing that could minimize how shit your life is for at least a little while, and that next time you should make sure they feel pandered to enough before you do something so entitled as asking them for a crumb of that solidarity they go on about when they're lecturing you about whatever self righteous cause they're on today.
Allies like you are why CEOs can get away with disrupting union formation by recruiting more PoC and queer folks.
Edit: Fragile white folks complaining that porcelain americans is racist because it makes fun of how fragile they are will never stop being funny. Keep on keepin' on Mr. "I'm totally not Commie's alt account."
Obama would've had a wider window if he actually delivered on his campaign promises, because then people would actually turn up to vote since they'd feel their vote actually mattered. No, instead he used that time to bail out the bankers who caused the global financial crisis. I have no idea what you're blabbering about with pandering, since this is about reproductive rights, something you were shrieking about just a second ago, but now that I pointed out democrats could've done something about it, you say that other things are more important and that it's somehow pandering. Also, what are you talking about "your fault"? I didn't say it was your fault, I said it was the fault of the politicians holding the power. You know, because they hold the power.
By the way, please stop using "porcelain americans" to refer to white people, it is racist. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but you seem like a troll trying to get a rise out of people. You cannot seriously talk about divisiveness letting CEOs get away with things while you use such divisive language.
Obama would've had a wider window if he actually delivered on his campaign promises
Because he can single handedly do whatever he wants?
Well apparently he can set priorities.
suggesting your 4-paragraph screwed is legitimate discourse but my point-for point rebuttals are spam is lazy
Imagine having the privilege to only be under the corporate thumb in this country and then turn around and shit on everyone else in the position of wishing they only had that to worry about.
understanding the definition of fascism isn't a privilege
Bernie probably lost because of people who voted like you, because y'all can't even be assed to turn out at the damned primaries.
vote harder next time. you'll get the government you deserve
Bush happened because of people who voted like you.
bush was coronated by his daddy's friends
Tell me you're a white straight dude without telling me you're a white straight dude. That or that you get all your politics from them.
identity is irrelevant to truth. this is pure ad hominem
identity is irrelevant to truth. this is pure ad hominem
Today I've read stupider things and more pretentious things, but I think this is the most of both at once I've seen in a while.
What are you even trying to say? That the world through many institutions and norms doesn't treat some classes of people differently?
You didn't even address the rest of the post you quoted from.
You didn't even address the rest of the post you quoted from.
you don't get to decide what I say, when, or to whom.
you don’t get to decide what I say, when, or to whom.
This is also incredibly stupid and irrelevant. Are you okay? Are you just bad at communicating? It's not about me deciding what you say or to who. I'm giving you shit because your post was nonsense and you didn't make a coherent argument. What you said was a complete non sequitur.
The argument the other person made was, essentially, arguments that "both sides are the same" are bullshit. One "side" does a lot more immediate harm, especially to women and minorities. Your identity is irrelevant to the truth of those harms, sure, but not irrelevant to the conjecture that you don't care about these things because they don't personally affect you.
You didn't address any of that. Maybe you're too busy badly replying with poorly written but extremely pretentious leavings.
What you said was a complete non sequitur.
wrong
Your identity is irrelevant to the truth of those harms, sure, but not irrelevant to the conjecture that you don't care about these things because they don't personally affect you.
and that claim is a red herring, irrelevant to whether what I said is true
your post was nonsense and you didn't make a coherent argument.
Are you okay? Are you just bad at communicating?
you're too busy badly replying with poorly written but extremely pretentious leavings.
What are you even trying to say?
I'm saying that my claims are true or false regardless of who I am.
Could you learn to comment once, with your whole thought contained? Its really hard to take you seriously when you talk and text like my senile grandmother
you talk and text like my senile grandmother
this is an insult, not a refutation
comment once, with your whole thought contained
each comment does contain a whole thought.
Oh, no, you poor thing. They most certainly do not.
this is just more condescension and rhetoric.
Keep telling yourself that
you don't get to decide what I say, when, or to whom.
Women lost the right to abortions because of people who voted like you.
rights are a fiction and your politics get people killed
Concern trolls are going to concern troll.
I see this corporatists allegations, and raise the military industrial complex that Eisenhower famously warned of.
The military industrial complex in America is a vast public jobs program.
Parts for the F 35 fighter are made in every state: https://www.f35.com/f35/about/economic-impact.html
Other countries have public healthcare with the government running hospitals.
We instead use tax dollars to pay people in every state to make weapons.
There's also NASA and a fair amount of money for medical research and computers.
But our country has been obsessed with over preparing for war since WWII.
If that's something you would like to see changed you should probably be vocal about the policies you would like to see implemented and examples of how well it's beneficial in other countries.
To simply say, the state is wrong about everything. Or all war is horrific and therefore everyone that worked in the largest jobs program in this country should pack it up and go home has zero chances of success.
Politics are complicated without trying to resort to absolutes with no room for negotiation.
Concern trolls are going to concern troll.
this is poisoning the well
Jesus Christ. this is pure fascist apologia.