[META] Never change, lemmy.ml
[META] Never change, lemmy.ml
For context: The thread was about why people hate Hexbear and Lemmygrad instances
You're viewing part of a thread.
Communism requires a centralized control of the economy and thus is not liberal
Liberal Democracy is the only form of government that rules by consent of the governed.
-
Communism does not require centralized control of the economy, as it is Stateless. Even Socialist systems can function with Liberal Democracy, with worker owned firms rather than authoritarian Capitalist structures.
-
Liberal Democracy is not in fact the only form of government that rules by consent of the governed. Rather, more decentralized systems offer far more local control, such as worker councils or ParEcon style systems, Syndicalism, Communism, etc.
So wrong on both counts, glad we could have you clear up for everyone that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Communism does not require centralized control of the economy, as it is Stateless
You literally cannot distribute, and coordinate production of goods, to the extent Communism requires, without a centralized economy. You can have a centralized economy and no other state apparatus. I can't imagine it succeeding, which is one of many reasons I'm not communist, but it is both necessary and theoretically possible. This is communist theory, not mine.
2: syndicalism and communism are economic theories, not systems of government. The system of government you are implying is anarchism. Anarchists are fine (if, in my view, very optimistic in their understanding of how humans work) . The system of government the vast majority of communists want is not anarchism, and I would not ban anarchists, even if they're communists. The world will never just descend to anarchy, so it's all a moot discussion anyway. We've seen countries slip into authoritarian communism in current generations.
-
You can, I already mentioned forms like ParEcon, or worker councils. It's fundamentally more democratic and decentealized than Capitalism, where the bourgeoisie call all of the shots.
-
No, you're fundamentally confusing yourself here. You can have a fully Communist economy with structures like worker councils, Authoritarianism isn't required in the slightest.
All in all, dogshit answers on your part.
You result to insults when it really isn't necessary at all. Viewing this exchange, any validity you had in your arguments is strongly undermined by your character.
Nah, they started flinging shit first. Additionally, if logic is deemed failed simply because someone is rude, then that's just avoidance. The person I replied to strictly avoided actually making a point, or responding to any I made.
Did you even read thos thread of exchanges between you and SCB?
You escalated. Every time. He didn't even match your escalation, he simply made more conversation.
At this point, you're not just looking crude and needlessly aggressive, you're looking unhinged.
Someone saying 'communism doesn't work' is not a personal attack, even if they're wrong. Get a grip.
Did you even read the thread of exchanges between you and SCB?
You escalated. Every time. He didn't even match your escalation, he simply made more conversation.
At this point, you're not just looking crude and needlessly aggressive, you're looking unhinged.
Someone saying 'communism doesn't work' is not a personal attack, even if they're wrong. Get a grip.
structures like worker councils, Authoritarianism isn’t required in the slightest.
Those worker councils, to operate with any efficiency, will need a national council. To have any success whatsoever, this national council needs the authority to dictate what is made, where it is made, how much is made when, and where goods are to be shipped.
That is authoritarianism.
Says who, exactly? The person who has continued to prove themselves wrong and uneducated on the subject matter this entire thread?
Secondly, by your very same logical chain, Capitalism is more authoritarian, as only the state and the Bourgeoisie call the shots, rather than democratic control. Even if we accept every single one of your incorrect statements in the previous paragraph as correct, there is exactly 0 reason any of those councils must be less democratically accountable than Capitalism and Liberal Democracy.
By your very own logical chain, we should ban all Capitalist instances because Capitalism is less democratic than Communism or Socialism.
Secondly, by your very same logical chain, Capitalism is more authoritarian, as only the state and the Bourgeoisie call the shots, rather than democratic control.
This sentence doesn't make sense. Capitalism is an economic system. One can be capitalist and authoritarian, as is the case with fascism, or one can be totally and completely laissez-faire as a state policy in some sort of Objectivist hellstate. Liberal Democracy is what keeps those things from happening, as a competing system of government.
No, you're the one that is making precisely no sense.
For Socialism/Communism, you are positing that there must be an Authoritarian group deciding everything, and pretend that even if we accept your false, baseless claim that a group must decide everything, then you're still making the even more baseless claim that this group cannot be democratically controlled via liberal or other such democracy.
For Capitalism, you are pretending that the hierarchy and authoritarian structures inherent to that system don't actually matter. It doesn't matter in your eyes that production be authoritarian a la Capitalism or democratic a la Socialism/Communism, as the form of government takes priority over the economy.
None or your claims have any merit. You're full of it.
-
-
