You're viewing part of a thread.
overreaching and attribution bias that make my eyes roll everytime.
Roll your eyes until they're doing somersaults, Clyde... capitalism doesn't cease working the way it works just because you find it's thoroughly predicted outcomes inconvenient for the fairy tale you wish you were existing in.
They accepted refugees en masse, second to Sweden.
Are you referring to this, Clyde?
Gee... how is that whole "see no fascism, hear no fascism, speak no fascism" thing working out for you?
Israel did not start as a fascist state
Riiiiight... white supremacist settler-colonialism and fascism are totally not so intimately and indelibly linked that it's almost impossible to tell where one starts and the other ends, eh Clyde?
It's not as if the uber-examples of fascist states we have were all frustrated colonizers, or the fact that the most prolific sponsor of fascist terrorism in world history also happens to be the world's most prolific neocolonialist.
Yep... pure coincidence all round, Clyde.
Israel is still far from being a fascist
Right... they can't be fascist if you so desperately want them to be the "good guys," right?
But Hamas derailed that at the last minute with their attack.
Oh, of course... it's all the Palestinians' fault, right? And if Jewish people would just have stopped with their nasty "Jewish-Bolshevism" Hitler wouldn't have been forced into perpetrating the Holocaust, right?
What else do you have for me, apologist?
I suggest you read on Umberto Eco’s 14 characteristics of fascism instead of just throwing labels.
Oh, I'm very familiar with Eco's little list - it's a perfectly flawed and dangerous misunderstanding of what fascism really is. But liberals love it because Eco treats fascism as some kind of aberration to liberals' precious little classical liberal nation-state - which is why people like you cannot recognize it when it is literally staring you in the face.
So, Germany gave aid to Israel before the invasion of Gaza
Sooooo... Germany gave aid to a white supremacist settler-colonialist state before said white supremacist settler-colonialist state did the very thing white supremacist settler-colonialist states always do?
Slavoj Zizek
Could you actually quote somebody less irrelevant?
Are you referring to this, Clyde?
We're talking about post-war Germany. Are CDU and SDF, both parties that have ruled Germany after World War 2, far-right? The rise of modern German far right is way after Germany accepted refugees in 2015. You're just showing that anyone you don't agree with is fascist by shoehorning after the fact examples that you miscontrue to fit your bias. If this is a court of law, it will not go down well for you. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say it seems to me you have no idea about international politics or politics in general. Come back when you know more.
Riiiiight... white supremacist settler-colonialism and fascism are totally not so intimately and indelibly linked that it's almost impossible to tell where one starts and the other ends, eh Clyde?
Palestine did agree initially, but then there was a civil war among Palestinians afterwards. If you actually know history you would know, but instead you keep parroting the same talking points.
But Hamas derailed that at the last minute with their attack.
Oh, of course... it's all the Palestinians' fault, right? And if Jewish people would just have stopped with their nasty "Jewish-Bolshevism" Hitler wouldn't have been forced into perpetrating the Holocaust, right?
Well now, as I suspected, so you weren't aware that Israel was going to give up settlements in West Bank, as demanded by Saudi Arabia as part of the deal? If you just get out of your naive lefty bubble, you would know. And it seems to me that you're not acknowledging Hamas as a terror group despite taking foreign nationals as hostages? Am I reading that right? I never blamed Palestinians. Are you aware that Hamas does not mean Palestinians?
It is easy for someone to parse complicated and tangled mess with simple narrative and bitesize without seeing the full picture, because the average human brain-- stil unevolved from our lizard ancestors-- could not cope with massive amount of information and resort to heuristics. Go watch the video explaining the run up before Hamas attack, when Israel and Saudi were about sign a deal, part of which Israel was going to give up occupied settlements. Or if it is tldr for you, here is a9 minute run down.
Oh, I'm very familiar with Eco's little list - it's a perfectly flawed and dangerous misunderstanding of what fascism really is. But liberals love it because Eco treats fascism as some kind of aberration to liberals' precious little classical liberal nation-state - which is why people like you cannot recognize it when it is literally staring you in the face.
Eco and other's have overlap on what they consider to be fascist. Is Germany militaristic and ultranationalist after World War 2 despite budget cuts on the military and taboo if one proclaims to be nationalist? They allowed Turkish migrants after World War 2 to fill labour shortage. How does that even sound fascist to you? You just want to call anyone you don't like fascist. Because for you it is easy to stereotype because it doesn't involve much thinking.
Slavoj Zizek is perfectly relevant. Because the left has a certain naivete and blindspot with their worldview, which he has commented upon.
We’re talking about post-war Germany.
Yes we are. The real one... not the fantasy one you were sold.
Are CDU and SDF, both parties that have ruled Germany after World War 2, far-right?
How far to the right was the German politicians that sicced the far-right on the German populace during the socialist uprisings after WW1, Clyde? You seem to be under the impression that your (so-called) "moderates" and "liberals" have never allied themselves with fascists - and that's quite laughable because Germany is the ur-example that perfectly demonstrates what function the fascist element plays in the modern classical liberal nation-state... and why liberal political establishments keep them around.
In fact... fascists cannot gain power without the aid of (supposedly) "moderate" political establishments unlocking the gates for them. Nothing surprising about that... after all - liberals and fascists share the same end-goal... the preservation of their precious status quo.
And we know how allergic liberals are to getting their hands bloody, don't we, Clyde?
Come back when you know more.
Oh look... the "centrist understander" thinks they have a leg to stand on. Let's put that to the test, shall we?
Are you aware that Hamas does not mean Palestinians?
I guess Hamas only recruits Inuits and Mongolians, then?
They allowed Turkish migrants after World War 2 to fill labour shortage.
Lol! Yeah... they allowed Jewish and Slavic labor during the war, too.
Blah, blah, blah, irrelevant apologetics ad nauseum.
Centrist, do you have anything to justify your fairy tale peddling that doesn't just exist out of the same canned and thoroughly debunked liberal bullcrap I've heard a thousand times before?
Projection. You call everything fascist you don't agree with it. You are like someone who calls everything gay that you don't like. For you, a capitalist country is fascist including social democrats like Scandinavia. The fantasy one sold to you is if the world is democratic socialist or communist then only it can't be fascist. You are embodying precisely what Slavoj Zizek comments, a naive, high-on-the-horse leftist who hasn't touched grass. Come back when you educate yourself.
Are you aware that Hamas does not mean Palestinians?
I guess Hamas only recruits Inuits and Mongolians, then?
Do you realise there is PLO? Of course not, you just repeat whatever is said like a parrot.
Lol! Are we getting a bit flustered, enlightened centrist?
Come now... be honest. What were you doing when antifa was throwing down with fascists in the streets?
Want me to take a stab at it? I'd guess you were heckling those antifascists real hard, weren't you? After all... how dare those troublemakers invite real fascism by harrassing those totally not-neo-nazis and their police allies while they were innocently walking down the streets, eh?
Fascists can always find a use for centrists... after all - it's pretty much proven that centrists pose no threat to them. That must be a pretty comforting thought for you.
Can't rebut anything and resort to usual lefty parroting points and buzzwords. Can't admit you don't know anything about the wider world apart from the naive lefty narrative you just regurgitate. Sure, call everything gay on anything you don't like. That's how you were conditioned. You pretend you're not a bigot but you are. Come back to the big boy's table when you've grown up. Oh wait... probably too late for you.
And I am guessing you only condone violence if it only serves you. So are you condoning Hamas taking foreign hostages who have nothing to do with the conflict? Least critical thinking troll.
Can’t rebut
Oh, you are absolutely correct, centrist - I cannot rebut the "see no fascism, hear no fascism, speak no fascism" fairy tale you are peddling. That is, after all, the point of this particular fairy tale, is it not?
But, as the recent collapse of the pro-Israeli propaganda consensus has demonstrated, you might find that your fairy tale convinces fewer and fewer people going forward.
I suggest you keep an eye on your copium stocks - you might need more than you think.
Did you just tacitly admit you support Hamas taking hostages by not acknowledging it? Do you support violence only if it agrees with you?
You just showed you have zero knowledge of the world other than what World Socialist Website tells you to think.
Most critical thinking tankie.
Did you just tacitly admit you support Hamas taking hostages by not acknowledging it?
I'm perfectly fine with Hamas taking prisoners - oops, sorry, I forgot we only call them prisoners when states do it.
Sooooo... there was something you were going to flex about, centrist?
tankie.
Oh look... the enlightened centrist understander predictably doesn't understand the terms they are throwing around.
Yawn.
I'm perfectly fine with Hamas taking prisoners - oops, sorry, I forgot we only call them prisoners when states do it.
It's not crime to take foreign nationals that have no stakes in conflict if your side does it. Spoken like a true tankie.
It’s not crime to take foreign nationals
They knew what they were doing when they patronized a white supremacist settler-colonialist state.
I've never bothered to find out... can you actually see the walls of the world's largest concentration camp from the venue they were holding that rave festival at?
Spoken like a true tankie.
Oh look… the enlightened centrist understander predictably still doesn’t understand the terms they are throwing around.
Yawn... again.