Lemmy users lack nuace and it stops actual discussion.
Lemmy users lack nuace and it stops actual discussion.
I seriously cannot have any degree of nuanced conversation here.
Like I get it, we all know capitalism is bad, but it feels like every time I or anyone go towards discussing the steps that need to be taken to address current looming problems in the short term, someone has to jump in and shut it down with "capitalism bad >:[ " and tear down any idea presented because its not complete and total destruction of the current economic model.
The result just feels like an echo chamber where no actual solutions get presented other than someone posting whole ass dissertations on their 33-step (where 30/33 steps are about as vague as "we'll just handle it") plan to fully convert the world to an anarchist commune.
Edit: I still vastly prefer Lemmy and the fediverse and a whole, my complaint here is that many of you are TOO INTENSE. You blow up small scale discussion.
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Ok. So imagine a world that progressed technologically like we did until the 70s, but it's some kind of decentralized communism focusing on democracy at work. (Business is worker owned and operated)
In the 70s, do they still suppress the science of climate change?I can't say for sure, but it seems far less likely to me. Thoughts?
I think I agree with you, it seems less likely, but we can't know. But also, society is not a choice between A and B. You may as well be hypothesising about what would have happened in an anarchist society, or dictatorial or monarchy or whatever.
I think this kinda falls into what OP is complaining about again. We can't change what happened before the 1970s. What does it help to theorycraft like we had a time machine? I'm much more interested in what we can do today about tomorrow, and I think that discussion would probably also be a lot more productive.
There's been a push for this in a lot of the media I consume. Usually they push the solar punk aesthetic as something to work towards.
Last year I started a worker co-op that works at assisting not for profit housing. I pay my bills, but I'm the only one working full-time so far. I've also been working on having perennial plant food growing in my neighborhood. I've planted fruit trees and other varieties of fruits and vegetables that grow without much care.
What do you do?
I try to limit my meat consumption and consumption in general. I bike to work. I vote for politicians that care about doing something about climate change.
I wish I had good candidates and could bike to work. You're pretty lucky
See, now this is helpful as a way to engage people with ideas they might not be aware of. We need more comments like this.
I appreciate that.
The internet in general is pretty negative. Something you said earlier reminded me of a quote that stuck with me. I can't remember who said it but 'the future is built on the present. What are you building today?'
It's easy to complain, it's probably my favorite hobby, but what can we do to smash capitalism? Personally, I think it's co-ops. Worker co-ops. Housing co-ops. Service co-ops. Let's shed our corporate overlords and build something for eachother.
What are you doing? What do you think we should be moving towards?Cool quote. Funny you mention Co-ops. I was thinking about that not long ago.
Some of the issues and problems, as I understand them, include:
- Infinite growth incentive due to stock markets inherently demanding ever greater returns
- Externalized costs resulting in tragedy of the commons
- Corporations as entities permit infinite wealth accumulation vs people who can only build wealth generationally.
- In many areas, like healthcare, profit is at cross-purposes with the service or product provided.
- human greed rather than generosity and sense of community is the driving force behind our economy leading to exploitation and stratification
I think corporations and the stock market were a colossal mistake. Entities that become too wealthy become powerful through regulatory capture and then wreak havoc with impunity. Whether it's the Dutch East India Company or Apple or Nestle or whatever.
I recognize that vast capital is needed to accomplish some beneficial things. But capitalists aren't the only source of capital. I think a lot of the high dollar endeavors with public benefits like medical research, should be socialized.
I think any field where the product or service is at odds with profit maximization should be socialized. So healthcare, safety products, stuff like that.
I also think co-ops are necessary. I think the means of production shouldn't fall to the few but to everyone in an organization. We must get away from corporate fiefdoms with employers as subjects. Corporations have way, way too much power over employees. We've traded kings and lords for corporations, basically.
I think we should do a lot better at building a culture of community responsibility, reducing childhood abuse and neglect that lead to dysfunctional and antisocial behaviors that lead to sociopaths running companies. We should have social programs to help people that become poor for various reasons. We should have social safety nets so that nobody has to get left far behind.
Crime would be reduced by much of these things. But for whatever crime remains, the goal of our justice system should be rehabilitation. That isn't always possible but the goal shouldn't be punishment, vengeance, or profit for privately owned prisons.