Late-night shooting at popular outdoor mall in Miami suburb leaves two dead, 7 injured
Late-night shooting at popular outdoor mall in Miami suburb leaves two dead, 7 injured
CityPlace Doral is known as a family friendly gathering place with bars, restaurants and a movie theater.
A shooting at a bar in a popular outdoor mall in a Miami suburb early Saturday left two dead and seven injured.
According to local law enforcement, an altercation at a martini bar at the CityPlace Doral complex broke out around 3:30 a.m. Saturday, prompting a security guard working the scene to intervene. A man involved in the altercation subsequently produced a gun and shot and killed the guard.
"You start hearing shots. And it wasn’t one. It was one after another, after another, after another," recalled Peter Andres Jordan, who was in the bar at the time.
Two police officers then shot and killed the alleged gunman, but not before one officer and six bystanders — five men and a woman, according to police — were wounded in the shootout.
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So, a security guard and two police weren't enough to stop the violence.
I guess this proves we need more good guys with guns on the streets, doesn't it?
[s/, because some folks haven't realized that the NRA was a Russian psy-op yet]
Yea it's the NRAs fault and all the other gun groups fault for gang violence, and we can totally get rid of 450+ million firearms because we know that criminals who aren't allowed to have guns in the first place will turn them in.
Classic pro-gun propaganda. Everybody is a "responsible gun owner" (despite that responsibility being entirely optional) until they shoot someone, then they're instantly a "gang member" so they don't count. Nevermind that the word "gang" doesn't appear anywhere in the article and it easily could have been another generic conservative losing control of his emotions.
But even if they were criminals, there is no magic gun fairy supplying them with firearms. The existing laws completely fail to identify criminals and straw purchases, but we're forbidden from changing them because they'll inconvenience gun owners.
But don't worry if you won't pass a background check, gun owners still have you covered. Most states still allow private sales to happen without a background check, because the gun lobby staunchly opposes closing that loophole. But if your state isn't one of them, you still don't have to worry because "responsible gun owners" who irresponsibly store their firearms provide the black market with tens of thousands of stolen guns every year.
Stop letting the problem insist they're the solution.
Yeah, so I guess we should just change nothing, right?
/s in case it wasn't blatantly obvious we are in desperate need of changing gun laws.
No we need to fix our society. No gun laws are magically going to stop the violence. Safety nets, education, removal of for profit prisons, single payer healthcare, and ending the war on drugs will curb more of the violence in our society than any gun law you can dream up.
No we need to fix our society
Off you go then. Let us know when you're all done fixing it and you can have your guns back, because all you're doing here is admitting that the current gun laws are incompatible with the America we live in today.
You're plan is to put a bandaid on a cancer patient.
Remember 5 seconds ago when you said there wasn't a problem with legal gun owners? That's the trouble with just collecting excuses from lobbyists and gun owners without actually thinking for yourself -- you end up mashing all your apolgism together in contradictory ways. Looks like you don't have enough of your cult friends here to bail you out either.
Anyway do you know what doctors actually do with cancer patients? They treat them over a period of months or years, incrementally attacking the cancer bit by bit until no trace of it remains.
But when the tumors turn up in your body, be sure to tell your doctor that letting the cancer spread is better than any solution that isn't instantly and completely effective.
Yes, I have to agree the problem is not just gun laws, and, in isolation, changes to gun laws would not fix the root of the problem.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/changing-story-nra-and-russia
I can add dozens of other stories about how Russian money was funnelled into the organization.
If you want to talk about gang violence, we can talk about how Oliver North's cocaine Contras flooded the USA with enough powder to create the Crack Wars of the 1980s.
There wasn't much meat in that story. While it is suspicious that a Russian oligarch paid for a lifetime membership in the NRA , that is not the same thing as funneling money into the Trump campaign. Can you cite any others that have more substantive allegations around Russian money in the NRA?
Before the more reactionary people attack me for being pro NRA, I most certainly am not. I just prefer to advance one or two solid arguments instead of a dozen mediocre or weak ones.
Edit: And thank you for posting that. I did not know there was even that much suspicion on them for accepting Russian money, though it isn't much of a surprise.
Cool, fuck the NRA, I really don't give a shit about that crap organization for FUDDs.
What does history in the 80s have to do with solving our today problem? Ending the war on drugs, removing for profit prisons, ending qualified immunity, single payer healthcare and safety needs for the poor. all will have a bigger effect than trying to take guns away.
Cool, fuck the NRA, I really don't give a shit about that crap organization for FUDDs
Especially now you've got representation that's even more far-right and cultish.
And please ignore every other country who has done this successfully. Illegal guns are extremely easy to have in the US specifically because guns are everywhere. The enormous effort to track which one's are allowed isn't working.
America is the only first world country with this daily problem.
Australia had a 60% turn in rate on their 1 million firearms in civ hands when they did their forced confiscation. Do you know what 40% of 450+ million firearms is? Do you also want to start a civil war by telling the police, that kill 1k of us a year, to go forcefully into everyones homes to confiscate them?
You don't have to go forcefully into anyone's home.
Ok, so how do you plan on getting rid of the few hundred million firearms that won't be turned in?
You ban firearms:
Year one and two: firearms can be turned in to the authorities for a rebate. Possession of a firearm or ammo is a misdemeanor resulting in the confiscation of such, with no further action. Use of a firearm in commission of a crime carriers a harsher penalty. Trading firearms attracts a fine.
Year three to five/six: as above, but possession now arracts a fine, increasing year on year starting as an inconvenience, ending as quite punitive. Trading firearms arracts prison time. Guns and ammo can be handed in anonymously, no rebate/reward.
Year six to ten/fifteen: as above, possession is now a criminal offence, with jail sentences starting at a few months, increasing year on year to serious jail time, commensurate with civilised countries. Trading attracts harsher sentences.
Good luck with that.
What youre saying is you don't want the gun to go no matter the risk.
We're saying Americans should rethink what they want to do with guns, not for the government to forcefully remove them.
Plenty of countries have the right to own guns, you just can't have 4 ARs for your shopping trip at walmart. They dont have multiple shootings per day.
What youre saying is you don't want the gun to go no matter the risk.
Yup. Deal with it.
We're saying Americans should rethink what they want to do with guns, not for the government to forcefully remove them.
Americans as a whole are more favored to own firearms. This little anti gun family here on social media is a minority.
Plenty of countries have the right to own guns, you just can't have 4 ARs for your shopping trip at walmart. They dont have multiple shootings per day.
An AR is a plastic semi automatic rifle. It's no different from any of my other semi automatics. This is why the majority of gun owners don't even want to discuss this stuff with you lot anymore. We're tired of the ignorance.
Yup. Deal with it.
Bit late to admit that nothing will ever change your mind but at least now we know these "discussions" you're having are nothing more to you than an opportunity to spread propaganda.
Americans as a whole are more favored to own firearms. This little anti gun family here on social media is a minority.
Aww, someone is missing his little brigade of sock puppets. Don't worry, they'll turn up soon, not realizing their votes are public and easily exposed.
An AR is a plastic semi automatic rifle. It's no different from any of my other semi automatics. This is why the majority of gun owners don't even want to discuss this stuff with you lot anymore. We're tired of the ignorance.
He literally never claimed otherwise, you just desperately wanted to use the "people who want gun control just don't understand guns" talking point.
But who cares anyway? We don't let paedophiles block sexual abuse laws by claiming "you just don't understand because you haven't fucked a kid" because we know that problems can't be trusted to suggest solutions.
At least you admit it has nothing to do with gangs or the number of Americans, you just want guns.
I can rephrase that last part. America is the only country that needs plastic semi-automatics at walmart. Better?
Walmart doesn't sell ARs. This is seriously how ignorant you are on the topic. Arguing with you is like a child making up shit to get their pouting ways. Lol
Wooosh.. I'm not talking about selling ARs I'm talking about the right to own and carry them, in some places around your neck at Walmart.
Maybe I wouldn't seem so ignorant on the topic if you stopped fabricating arguments I'm not making.
Why does it matter where they're carried?
Do you know what 40% of 450+ million firearms
Yep, it's 60% less than 100% of 450+ million and every single one of them removed from circulation makes people safer.
Do you also want to start a civil war by telling the police, that kill 1k of us a year, to go forcefully into everyones homes to confiscate them?
That's the idiots view of how gun control works and you couldn't make it any clearer that your understanding of gun control comes straight from the gun lobby.
You can't even keep your idiocy straight in your own comment. Did Australia send police to "go forcefully into everyone's homes to confiscate them"?
Yep, it's 60% less than 100% of 450+ million and every single one of them removed from circulation makes people safer.
Lol no it doesn't. Less firearms doesn't magically make anyone safer. Making sure people don't turn to crime to survive does, making sure there is mental health and single payer healthcare so people who need the help can get it without fear does. Making sure our children are properly educated and aren't crammed into classrooms where kids cannot get proper education does... But you keep thinking that taking away firearms will magically fix all of our underlying issues. You sound like someone who puts a new roof on a house while the rest of it underneath is being eaten by rot and termites.
That's the idiots view of how gun control works and you couldn't make it any clearer that your understanding of gun control comes straight from the gun lobby.
Lol I don't follow the gun lobby. You're arguing with a left leaning person, who wants to make sure our society has a good foundation. You on the other hand sound like some white privilege suburb kid who is terrified of anyone that's not like you.
You can't even keep your idiocy straight in your own comment. Did Australia send police to "go forcefully into everyone's homes to confiscate them"?
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/quotes/2572
Yeah they did, they have collected a shit ton of guns since the 1996 confiscation, but it really didn't do anything because there are more firearms in the hands of civilians there than there were in 96.
Less firearms doesn't magically make anyone safer.
Even disregarding all the studies and statistics proving you wrong, the abject failure of pro-gun policy for over 20 years has made it clear that more guns don't make anyone safer.
The property crime rate is identical to every other wealthy country, only with a layer of murder on top. The police execute more people in the street without cause or punishment. The upcoming election is between a neoliberal and a barely coherent reality TV star who openly simps for fascists.
So what exactly are we tolerating all this violence for? Your sad little hero fantasies?
Making sure people don't turn to crime to survive blah blah blah
Nothing more than your latest bullshit excuse. You told us it was Marilyn Manson and video games. Then you told us it was because schools had too many doors and not enough God. Now you're blaming social issues (all of which pro-gun politicians oppose fixing) because you know it's an excuse that will be good for 50 years.
So fuck off and build it. While you do, we can address the gun problem that by your own admission escalates these problems into murder and terrorism.
Making sure our children are properly educated and aren't crammed into classrooms where kids cannot get proper education does
Don't worry, there isn't a child in America who hasn't been "properly educated" about what happens when a parade of red flags becomes a "responsible gun owner". They've gone to school every day wondering if their school will be next and watched as the pro-gun community spat on them for speaking out. One day, they'll be the ones writing laws and they're going to remember exactly how much compassion you showed them.
But you keep thinking that taking away firearms will magically fix all of our underlying issues
You mean the issues that progressives have been fighting to address since long before gun owners decided to use them as their latest scapegoat? Don't worry, we can do more than one thing at a time but unfortunately for you, we're not obliged to follow your bullshit "fix every other problem first" demands.
You sound like someone who puts a new roof on a house while the rest of it underneath is being eaten by rot and termites.
I actually love this analogy because you're too fucking stupid to realise that the rot could absolutely be a problem with a failing roof that needs replacing. But there you are in your rotting house, gormlessly insisting your roof is infallible and perfect.
Lol I don't follow the gun lobby.
You absolutely do. That's why your opinions and talking points are perfectly aligned with what's most profitable to them. All you're doing is admitting that you fell for their propaganda without a single critical thought.
You're arguing with a left leaning person, who wants to make sure our society has a good foundation.
I don't care who you are. It's anonymous social media. You could claim to be anyone or anything. You're awkwardly repeating the same rhetoric as pro-gun reactionaries so I'm going to treat you like a pro-gun reactionary.
You on the other hand sound like some white privilege suburb kid who is terrified of anyone that's not like you.
Watching you try the "use their values against them" technique for a second time actually makes you sound more far-right. It's a strategy openly advocated by neo-nazi groups and you're really shoehorning trying to shoehorn it in.
Yeah they did, they have collected a shit ton of guns since the 1996 confiscation
Yeah good link fuckstick, it says absolutely nothing. Are you genuinely just relying on the fact the word "seized" appears on the page? Police sieze illegal firearms when they're discovered. They didn't go door to door tearing poor, innocent semiautomatic weapons from the bosom of their loving owners. Who fills your head with this dogshit?
do anything because there are more firearms in the hands of civilians there than there were in 96.
Oh look, more "gun control according to pro-gun groups". You know it is too, because you're getting slimy with your wording again. Are those "more firearms" illegal weapons? Are they in the hands of criminals?
Nope. Counter to all your greasy propaganda, Australia didn't "ban guns" -- those "more weapons" are legal, lower-risk weapons, in the hands of people with firearms licenses, who have been members in good standing at a range or club for more than 6 months, have been psychologically assessed, have demonstrated they can safely operate a firearm and must keep their weapons in a gun safe that no unlicensed person can access.
And what a shocking plot twist, no mass shootings ans assaults and property crimes never involve guns. They didn't even have to solve every single social problem that gun owners could think of first.
Reduction through attrition
Good luck with that.