guess I'll die
guess I'll die
I had In The House - In A Heartbeat playing in my head while making this meme
sorry for the pixelation in the corner, I used a shitty website which put a watermark there
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Wait, who what now? I'm not aware of any extra immigration requirements based on your health situation. I certainly didn't get asked when I was a migrant.
To where? If you migrate to Canada you have to pass medical exam and all
Wat
It makes sense if you remember that the universal healthcare system is insurance.
So if you are trying to migrate without a job but with an expensive disabillity and little money, then you are just a liabillity to the healthcare system.
And since the country is under no obligation to pay for the care, there is no reason for them to do so.
It is just basic resource management, you may not like it, but it is reality, regardless of what political system the country uses.
Except people don't move to a country expecting to not ever work... God forbid we pay for someone WhO DoEsNt DeSeRvE iT until they can get up to speed and on their feet...
We're such assholes, especially us in the US....
You are absolutely correct, most people want to work when they can, but look at it from the government's perspective, if they see a severely disabled person in his 50s with zero education, zero knowledge of the language wanting to migrate to the country, what they see is just an expense with few prospects of being able to contribute enough to offset the cost of treating/managing his disabillities.
He may be an absolute genious, but that is not known at the time, the government also must consider that any resources spent on this person can't be spent on someone else.
So in this case the financial argument is clearly against accepting the person, based on the information the government has, the person should be rejected.
In a purely financial world, that would be it, but luckily we live in a world with more incentives than purely greed.
Taking in the person will generate goodwill in some parts of the world, that might be reason enough to do it, or perhaps the person has valuable information that could also be reason to let them in, perhaps this person is part of a political party in his original country that you want to remain good friends with, then this is an excellent opportunity to show support.
All of this is extermely cold and calculating, I absolutely conceede that, but a government can selldom afford to let feelings dictate policy.
Even governments showing compassion do it for their own gain, it's good PR!
This is reality, and it is better to face it and deal with it than to fight with an immaginary entity.
There’s lots that do, and not everyone will be capable of contributing. What about a mother of two kids with autism? She can’t work, will spend all her time caring for her kids who will into ever be a burden on the system.
Every system is abused, that’s why they have limitations.
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Uhh no it doesn’t, why are you assuming that? How does preventing people coming in spend millions and save thousands?
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Why do you think border enforcement is expensive? Because so many people would cross (also war protection… so it’s already established infrastructure actually) that it’s a necessity. Or you know an army covertly moves in with arms since you foolishly had open borders and take over your entire country. Think past your nose.
relatively small handful of people who are capable of traveling across the world
I don’t think you realize how small a lot of European countries are, you could cross multiple in one day of travel. And why do you think so few people try? Because of the consequences.
People die even trying to flee their country, and you want to say only a handful are capable?
Yeesh give that empty head of yours a shake bud.
if you are trying to migrate without a job but with an expensive disabillity and little money, then you are just a liabillity to the healthcare system.
And since the country is under no obligation to pay for the care, there is no reason for them to do so
It is just basic resource management, you may not like it, but it is reality
No. Just no. People aren't numbers on a spreadsheet. That's some capitalism mind rot.
In this case we are numbers on a spreadsheet, we may not like it, but all nations have limited resorces, and need to practice resource management.
This goes for both capitalism and communism.
Anything else would be to deny reality.
However different governments use different metrics to approve or deny new citizens, but all boil down to if it is worth it to the country.
all nations have
limited resorcesartificial scarcity, andneedchoose topractice resource managementdeny resources from those that need them most on behalf of those that already have mostThere, fixed it for you.
This goes for both capitalism and communism.
Which everyone knows are the two only economic systems possible 🙄
Anything else would be to deny
realitythe dominant orthodoxyFixed it for you again. You're really guzzling that "my masters know best" kool-aid.
all boil down to if it is worth it to the country.
The fundamental purpose of governments is to maximize the well-being of the citizens and other inhabitants. When the government's aims are in conflict with the well-being of the people, the government has failed.
Automatically rejecting people as worthwhile based on putting them in one column or the other on a spreadsheet is a particularly grievous failure.
Well you sure do live up to your nickname, being all hippie, but why are you fighting me?
I just explained the reasons why a country would need a medical checkup of anyone moving there.
I am just an IT guy, I don't set policy.
why are you fighting me
Because you're not just reporting on the awful status quo. You're mis-characterizing it as natural and inevitable rather than a serious of choices, often wrong, that we keep letting people with questionable motives make on everyone's behalf to the benefit of those who already have too much while others suffer from not having enough.
Put another way, you're framing blind obedience to rules that haven't served the vast majority of people well as not just a good idea but the ONLY possibility.
You may not set policy, but whether you're aware of it or not, you're defending policy that needs attacking.
Sigh, the classic extremists trap, in order to be a good guy, you need to keep geeting more and more extreme.
You are basically saying that unless I am actively working toward the same goal you are, then I am a terrible person.
You mention that "when the government's aims are in conflict with the well-being of the people, the government has failed", that is litterarly my point!
The government has a duty of spending taxes to provide services for it's people (citizens and people with approved residency and work permits), a migrant requesting residency and work permits is not yet part of the governments people.
You say that capitalism and communism isn't the only economic systems, sure but no economic system in the world would be able to generate infinite resources.
Sigh, the classic extremists trap, in order to be a good guy, you need to keep geeting more and more extreme.
Sigh, the classic Centrist trap. In order to defend your reflexive defense of the status quo, you have to pretend that anything else is "extreme" 🙄
You are basically saying that unless I am actively working toward the same goal you are, then I am a terrible person.
I have said nothing of the sort. I've merely pointed out that you defend as inevitable that which is unnecessarily enforced. The only one making snap character judgments here is you.
The government has a duty of spending taxes to provide services for it's people (citizens and people with approved residency and work permits)
True.
a migrant requesting residency and work permits is not yet part of the governments people
Also true, but people with disabilities generally tend to know someone in the country before migrating. People who are deprived by their loved ones being denied entry.
Unless we're talking refugees, in which case it's any country's legal and moral duty to take them in and protect them from whatever they're fleeing from.
You say that capitalism and communism isn't the only economic systems, sure but no economic system in the world would be able to generate infinite resources.
Again with the strawmen. You don't need infinite resources to care for everyone who's in need. In the case of all but the poorest countries (which are mostly that poor because of being looted by richer countries) you just need to better distribute the ones you already have, rather than throw all the wealth and ownership at the already obscenely rich wealth hoarders.
To want a better deal for the 90% of people who aren't rich and use resources on those that need them most rather than perpetuating the upwards transfer of wealth inherent to capitalism isn't communism. It's just wanting a better world for the vast majority of humanity.
So which non-capitalist country/countries allow disabled and economically inactive people to migrate there for free healthcare?
Can't name one off the top of my head, but that's besides the point.
My point isn't about what IS, it's about what COULD and SHOULD be.
The taxes people (in Australia) pay to finance public healthcare are numbers on a spreadsheet and we don't have unlimited money.
I guess it is about proving that you can provide for yourself otherwise you won't be allowed to permanently stay. But this doesn't really have anything to do with the healthcare system. Just a guess.
Lots of places have this, I wouldn't be able to be a Canadian citizen because of it.
Okay, so that's two for Canada, one for "you have to prove you have a job or resources to support yourself, but no specific health care requirement".
Gonna guess this is a Canadian thing, then? Or at least a thing in some places but definitely not "all the countries with good health care".
I've only looked at Canada and Japan personally, but I can add that Japan also does this. The process of immigrating is to effectively prove you'll be a net positive on their economy if you live there, limiting disability is one way they can do that.
Well, hey, all I can say is that's not how it works either in my home country or in the other place where I lived as a long term resident, and I am glad that's the case. Over here even undocumented migrants have a right to health care, which was not uncontroversial but is definitely the right call.
Yes illegal migrants have access, as well as do everyone else in those places like people taking in during war.
The topic is specifically about people immigrating to those places from a country without soical nets, to a place with social nets, where they can only take from the system and never put back.
Illegal migrants and people accepted during wars, WILL eventually contribute to society. Immigrants that are already disabled is something else entirely.
No it's not. First of all, there is no requirement to be healthy to be able to be a migrant here. That's not a thing in either my home country or the country I personally moved to. Both of those place have "social nets".
I get being annoyed at the places where that is true, but why assume it's universal? It clearly isn't.
Or you just don’t understand the verbiage.
Which countries? I bet if we looked through there would be limitations.
I literally moved to a different country and lived there for a decade. I think I would have noticed while I was filling all the forms. I talked to no doctors, I answered no questions and nobody ever brought it up. The first time I got a physical after moving it was the yearly checkup at work.
And I've worked with migrants here as well. Hell, I've hired migrants. In one case we messed up the paperwork and had to start over. Not once did we check for any disability exemption of any kind.
And no, I'm not telling you my life history just because you're too conservative to assume that countries don't just issue blanket bans for sick people to be immigrants, go google it or something, do some research before telling other people on the Internet how the world works.
What countries? You can’t prove your claim without anyone being able to verify it.
Make excuses, but you need to provide the countries or your claims are quite frankly bullshit and not valid.
We don’t need a life story lmfao, two countries. Thats it.
And why are you saying I’m conservative? Because I’m calling out your bullshit claims? lol good one dude.
Because you are acting like a baseline of inhumanity is the norm and refusing to accept the economics of not being a complete dick could be sustainable, which is a pretty fundamentally conservative stance.
I'm still not telling you where I live because I am not an idiot, but what I can do is google it for you:
In most cases, disabled people can move wherever abled people can. Kristine Thorndyke of TEFLHero confirms that there’s no visa barrier there for disabilities. Panama is the same. Countries with universal healthcare will still extend coverage, though waiting periods and supplemental insurance may apply. In countries like Germany, where health insurance is mandatory, you’ll find private insurers to fill in gaps on preexisting conditions. Others, like Costa Rica, extend healthcare coverage for all at one nominal rate. Brazil covers medical costs for all residents for free.
https://expatsi.com/healthcare/disabled-expat-guide/
There, go be weird somewhere else.
Places with social net for people with disabilities don’t just want people coming in and being a burden on the system.
In theory, as a citizen you’ve paid your due in taxes until you became a burden.
I am VERY glad that's not how we frame it here.
I mean, hey, yeah, being a place where people like to retire the issue does come up in conversation, but health care is a constitutional right, it is provided universally and even undocumented migrants are allowed to access most of the system. Makes sense to me. You get taxed a proportional amount of what you make, everybody gets the support they need. I have several family members that would likely not be alive right now without that principle and that's how I wanted to be treated when I lived abroad, so I have no problem extending the same privilege to others.
Yay for socialdemocracy, I guess.
You’re free to go to those places if you can support yourself or be supported by someone else who would be paying into the system.
Too many people abuse the system, and they would need to increase everyone else’s taxes if they just let everyone in. Reality is, no one wants double the taxes and people leaching off the system, even if they would lie and say it publicly.
It’s not framing anything, that’s just reality, you’re free to bury your head in the sand and think elsewise, but all it does it prove how foolish and naive you are.
I'm not "burying my head in the sand", I live in a country where we have a constitution that recognizes a universal right to health care and I vote for governments that maintain that, even for immigrants.
Our health care is fine, our economy is doing fine and I am absolutely fine with the taxes I pay, publicly and privately. I've told my accountant as much, and in the country I migrated to I paid less taxes, so I even gave up some opportunities for tax exemptions because they seemed unfair, given the privilege I had access to and the kindness I was granted as a guest.
You being a bad person doesn't mean everybody else is or that not being a dick is "naive", friend. Some of us just choose not to live that way with full understanding of the situation. I get why you wouldn't want to acknowledge it if that's not you because woof, that sure makes you sound... not great. But, you know, you can't bury your head in the sand and think elsewise, that'd just prove how foolish and cynical you are.
It’s the same thing in those countries, that’s why they restrict who comes in so not a million people come in and be burdens. Where are you referring to? I bet there’s restrictions and you just don’t know about them.
I already replied to you on this. I know about them. I've been a hiring manager for migrants, a migrant and also I have google and I did check before responding. And no, I'm not telling you the countries I've lived in, I don't give a crap about your belief or acceptance. I'm telling you how it is, you can go look up examples yourself, take my word for it or keep making a fool of yourself online, I genuinely don't care which one you choose, man.
I’m telling you I’ve done that, there is multiple people telling you they’ve never heard of this either.
What’s wrong with naming two countries if you’re some of yourself…?
Doesn’t even need to be the two you’ve been, why is this question so hard for you to answer if you believe in this so much?
Even professionals make mistakes… why do you think that supports your claims? Answer the question and people can answer this for you.
I think there is some thought going on about what it means as a society to discriminate against people with disabilities during immigration.
It seems like the US would have a similar problem with people moving between states that had medicaid expansion and ones that do not. I don’t know if there are any studies on the issue.
Discriminating during immigration based on a congenital disability feels like discriminating based on race to me.