So is Israel just going to completely overtake Palestine?
So is Israel just going to completely overtake Palestine?
I saw an article about them attacking Lebanon now. So, where will it stop? Have the Israeli government ever spoken about this?
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The only issue with that is Israel's wish to remain a Jewish state. If they added all of those Palestinians as free and equal citizens, then that would shift the demographics of Israel sufficiently to put that at risk. So, they have to choose between values of freedom and equality, vs being a Jewish state, vs giving up that land.
Or they could attempt to remove all the people somehow.
No easy solutions, unfortunately. As usual for the Middle East.
I mean most of the hardcore islamists will either be killed as terrorists or flee the state Israel anyway (so likely about 50%). And in the end i can absolutely understand Israel regarding this goal. The goal is to keep their own citizens safe from the terrorism and from the antisemitism that is very big in the world. Israel got this territory from UK and they still have to fight for it. The entire region around Israeli borders is no mans land due to the very frequent bombardings from hamas and hezbolla. The Iron dome can only take out about 90% and the regions near border can't be protected due to the warning time (10 seconds at max) the region is completely evaluated in the month after 7th October over 10.000 rockets Rained on Israel. And the daily average is about 100 to 200 since.
No peace is possible as long as these terrorists are alive and i absolutely hope Israel ignores all the outside "criticism" regarding the military operation and just removes them now.
One thing is easy, terrorists need to be gone for peace.
I do agree that terrorism is a problem that needs to be dealt with. The problem is when innocents get caught up in the middle. If you just call a whole people or whole religion terrorist as an excuse to get rid of them, you're just a generic conquerer, and a liar on top.
Thats not what im saying, i live with many Muslims in my neighborhood they are nice, respectful and open people, but the terrorists in Gaza and around Israel take their own civilians hostage and do stuff to endanger them on purpose. Its not possible to fight them without casualtys and collateral damages. Also these people take their religion as excuse to try to commit genocide, repeatedly.
Yes, terrorists do do those things. But some collateral damage is one thing. All the possible collateral damage is genocide. If Netanyahu tries to drive all the Palestinians away, he has become as bad as what the Jewish people fled.
Just because some bad people are doing bad things does not give you an excuse to drop bombs on everyone. That is no good.
You do not want to become just as bad as what you hate, doing whatever it takes. Or you become them. A good person must try harder.
Thats not true for several reasons but im too tired to argue all of this.
One of those points is that the original Palestinian people are already part of Israel and currently only the Arab "Palestinians" are a problem. Maybe learn more about the conflict. But this goes for 99% of the people here, most here dont know shit about the conflict.
If peace in the region means driving those people away i think its justified, the jews have been on that side for the majority of history and still are, this conflict began because the Arab Palestinians tried to commit a actual genocide against the Israeli Jewish people.
No, the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict began far, far earlier than Oct 7th, that was just the most recent flare-up. It's complicated, remember?
The key is to not be evil, and to try not to kill too many people. You cannot escape the evil of killing innocent people, there is no acceptable justification. Some would be war. But too many is bad. Are the Israelis good people, or are they Huns? We shall see.
Bro, i meant the attempted genocide right after Israel was founded.
And its not evil to some day have enough about being the scapegoat for everyone and a easy target. Si vis pacem para bellum
Oh, I see. I don't know about genocide back then, it was really just various wars after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Some atrocities, but nothing into the thousands.
No, if your "enough" is just taking living space over the bones and ashes of others, you are commiting evil. There are other ways.
Oh, I see. I don't know about genocide back then, it was really just various wars after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Some atrocities, but nothing into the thousand
Nah man they tried to kill all the jews in the first Arab Israeli war. They couldn't because Israel was supported by the most important players.
No, if your "enough" is just taking living space over the bones and ashes of others, you are commiting evil. There are other ways.
What place isnt a gigantic graveyard? All modern civilizations are built on graveyards and if it takes another one to have more peace for longer thats a thing that wouldn't be too bad.
This region in particular has probably seen more war in humanitys existence than most other places did. Why blame Israel for defending themselves? If your neighbors constantly throw trash into your garden you either throw them back or get the police involved. If your neighbor is a murderous psychopath you would buy a weapon to defend yourself, and you would use it when necessary. In that case, you killed someone for your living place.
Oh and Israel didn't take shit, it was given to them by England after WW2 and as said, they constantly need to fight for what is rightfully theirs.
Israel isn't fighting just the bad neighbor though, they're using that bad neighbor as an excuse to kill many good neighbors too. All Palestinians are not all bad, some are innocent.
They actually weren't given it by Britain after WW2 either, that's not even close. Fresh Jewish settlement in the area began somewhere around the 1900s-1920s, and they actually purchased the land with gathered funds for the purpose. Life between the Jewish settlers and the Palestinians was initially peaceful. I'll warn you, I'm a history guy, I love this stuff.
History is an ugly thing, certainly, the important thing is that we do better, and learn from the errors. This is how we can avoid living in such miserable times as our ancestors were often forced to, so often making foolish choices and burning their own countries to the ground out of hubris, like Germany or Japan in WW2 did.
The first Arab-Israeli War was a little more complicated than that. Jewish militias were actually conquering land at that point in something called Plan Dalet, it was something of a civil war in the broader region between the Jewish and Palestinian factions. After the Israeli declaration of independence, yes, a large coalition of countries did try to eject them. It was won by the Israelis though, and they were rewarded for that with gains. These wars do not give excuse to kill the descendents of those people, though, right? Each person should be judged for what they do, not their fathers, or their neighbors.
Don't think the Israelis are innocent angels that never conquered or committed atrocities in their early history either. It was a very ugly time with both sides being pretty horrendous at different points. Modern Israel has taken steps at different points to be better than that though, returning to the peaceful ways of the original settlers under people like Rabin, before Netanyahu took over. They can do that again, it is not too late.