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Americans when Canadians say they'd prefer TikTok spying vs an American company:
but seriously. I want no one to have my data, but if someone HAD to have it, I would prefer TikTok over anything from Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, etc..
My country wont export me to China if I post something negative or pirate something. My country will export me to the US if they come banging on my door. I am quite literally safer letting China have a bit of my data.
I am pretty sure TikTok would comply if you posted something illegal under Canada law or US law. Sure they aren't based in the US but that doesn't mean they don't operate within the US and can just ignore the US laws. I assume they also have operations within Canada as well.
China literally holds our citizens hostage to attempt to force us to permit their espionage. Openly operates police depots on Canadian territory to terrorize people here. It's not the fucking same.
I'm not talking about that. Please stay on topic. My simple statement is true, and doesn't mean that I love China. I don't. You'll never catch me ever talking positive about China or ever stepping foot in China.
How convenient! It's on topic because it should be informing your choice who you want exploiting you.
Will you never have a loved one step foot in China? Will you never come to care for the Chinese Canadians and their families abroad who are vulnerable, or is it enough that it doesn't affect you personally? China's government has no problem using people's families against them.
the hell are you talking about
You're unhinged and insufferable. I said none of those things. Please, get help.
You're upset because I think China having my data vs the US is the slightly lesser of two evils.
If I could pick, I'd pick no one having my data. Both countries are shit and both countries would do bad things with my data. One has less control over me, so I'd pick that one, I guess.
China didn't invade/bomb Iraq, Afganistan, Syria, Libya... America did.
Watabout watabout watabout watabout watabout watabout watabout watabout
Fallacist's fallacy.
whatabout is the correct response when talking to hypocrites.
Don't worry the illegally operating Chinese police station in your city will just come and get you. No need to be exported, you get to be questioned and held by a foreign officer without any direct oversight in your own country!
The point
your head
The point being that the US even if aggressive uses the proper channels to pursue action against entities it believes to be dangerous?
How is that worse than China illegally and secretively doing the exact same thing within your own borders they promised to respect.
Tf are you on lol
I DO NOT WANT MY DATA ON AMERICAN SERVERS.
I DO NOT WANT MY DATA ON AMERICAN SERVERS.
I DO NOT WANT MY DATA ON AMERICAN SERVERS.
Nobody cares.
Then people should stop asking me..
Okay next time you can stop there then if that's all you want to say. No need to vaguely complain about YOUR GOVERNMENT extraditing criminals to the US while willfully ignoring the fact China engages in ILLEGAL operations within your border.
This is the worst take I've ever heard. The concerns are "capitalist targeted advertising" vs "a foreign power abusing American user data to target and push agendas on it's people".
Is lemmygrad leaking??
I'm not a lemmygrad user. I'm simply stating facts?
There's literally many recent news articles of Canadians getting in legal trouble from American companies because of the things they posted or things they downloaded.
The Canadian government isn't handing me over to China or allowing China to come get me.
My comment is not even pro China. I'm just saying that nothing I say or do will allow China to put me in jail. Can't say the same about America.
You should learn to read. I would prefer no one get my data, but it's statistically safer for me for China to get it over an American company. However, no one should get it. Fuck shit American companies, fuck shit Chinese companies.
This is actually what I wanted to say to a lot of people. During peace times, allowing a foreign adversary stealing your data is a lot less damaging to your personal freedoms than your own government stealing your data. We need to be wary every time when our own government tries to tries to introduces surveillance laws under the disguise of "national security".
"Peace times" doesn't mean much when wars are waged through propagandizing a countries population to promote civil unrest. Russia was doing this for years and look how it changed the country completely in 2016. I'm certain china will be doing the same. I think people vastly underestimate the value of this data, and what a foreign power can do with it. They can subtly shape the future of a country to damage it far worse than some proxy war will.
I'm glad that you brought up the problem of foreign propaganda. I firmly believe the government shouldn't be there to tell me what kind of views I can and cannot see. Some exceptions already exist such as blatant calls for violence which we already have clear guidelines on. Other than that, government is in no place to regulate speech. What's the point of beating Russia and China when we become just like them?
For me America is the foreign power. One that keeps murdeing people in my corner of the world.
You're about half right. How about just not giving the foreign adversary your data at all?
You don't NEED TikTok. Nobody does, it's fucking garbage artificial ADD fuel. Everyone should get rid of it.
Well I don't use TikTok and couldn't care less if they get banned. If you actually read the bills that's getting passed like the RESTRICT act in the US you'd realize it's not about banning TikTok and it has numerous vague and concerning clauses that infringes on your privacy. My opinion is always have better privacy laws and enforce it equally on all companies. When my government blatantly tries to steal more of my data and pretend they're actually doing me a favor I'd rather the foreign adversary have it for free.
Well I agree with everything you said there, except for the last 9 words of it.
To each their own. Ideally no company should have those data that can be used for spying by any government. But if I have to choose, I personally fear government overreach more than anything else. We can agree to disagree here.
Peace time?! China is waging a cold war against Western democracies!
so war hasn't broken out, what's your point? Last time I checked China still isn't able to send agents to my house to arrest me, but folks here are getting misreported for CSAM to the feds by google scanning their pictures without consent.
So are the same Western democracies... nearly half of the US is too stupid to understand how voting for an orange Mussolini wannabe was a horrible idea. There's undeniable proof that the CIA interfered with the Brazilian government between 2016 and 2020. Italy is once again on the brink of Fascism.
Yep no need to worry about china in Canada! You're so safe there!
How is "getting in trouble with American companies" (i.e. getting banned from a platform for breaking their rules) worse than a foreign power trying to influence a countries people? You're not going to jail for posting dumb bullshit lol
US is the foreign power that has the most influence on people in Canada dummy.
No, the US is the foreign power who's culture has the biggest influence on people in Canada, there's no tangible reason to believe that big US tech companies are feeding your data to the US government and taking orders on how to influence it's people. Tech companies in the US have shown time and time again that they have no interest in working with the US government (a problem of itself) and every piece of user data handed over has been through a court order.
TikTok has failed numerous global security audits and there's reason to believe that they're tied directly to the Chinese government and being used by the Chinese government to influence foreign citizens via misinformation and the removal of "anti-Chinese" material.
Yeah yeah, both are bad, sure, but one is worse and it's direct Chinese government influence. Anyone that says otherwise is a troll or needs to seriously practice some basic critical thinking skills.
US is the foreign power whose culture, money, media companies, and oligarchs have the biggest influence on Canada. This is the country that constantly meddles in Canadian politics. Meanwhile, we know perfectly well after Snowden leaks that US companies very much do work with US government, and one has to be an utter ignoramus to claim otherwise.
Meanwhile, numerous audits have shown that the type of data TikTok collects is exactly the same as any other major social media platform. Stop spreading misinformation here.
Thinking that there is any equivalence between the amount of influence US and China have on Canada is sheer idiocy, and your woefully misinformed comment inadvertently highlights the problem. You should take your own advice and practice some critical thinking skill as not to make a 🤡 of yourself in public in the future.
Meanwhile, we know perfectly well after Snowden leaks that US companies very much do work with US government, and one has to be an utter ignoramus to claim otherwise.
As I previously said, this was data they were ordered to hand over, which is obviously problematic, but since then E2EE has been implemented all over big tech while they've fought against backdoor access. While this is obviously self-serving and only because of global backlash, it proves that these tech companies have no interest in working for the US government. Your statements are surface level depth and show a real lack of understanding on this subject.
Meanwhile, numerous audits have shown that the type of data TikTok collects is exactly the same as any other major social media platform. Stop spreading misinformation here.
Stop sliding the conversation. I never said they collected more data, I said they've failed security audits and there is reason to believe they are willingly handing it over the Chinese government and taking direction from the Chinese government.
Thinking that there is any equivalence between the amount of influence US and China have on Canada is sheer idiocy, and your woefully misinformed comment inadvertently highlights the problem.
Lol again, as I said, you're mistaking culture influence for foreign government influence.
You're continuously sliding the conversation into trying to make it sound like I feel like US tech has no issues while being critical of Chinese tech. I am critical of both, however I'm not an "utter ignoramus" lmao and I can recognize how fucking stupid of a statement "I prefer China to have my data" is.
I'm gunna go with Chinese propaganda troll for you!
Edit: Hahaha called it. Check out this dude's posts, it's all Chinese and anti-west propaganda.
As I previously said, this was data they were ordered to hand over, which is obviously problematic, but since then E2EE has been implemented all over big tech while they’ve fought against backdoor access. While this is obviously self-serving and only because of global backlash, it proves that these tech companies have no interest in working for the US government. Your statements are surface level depth and show a real lack of understanding on this subject.
The only one who's showing genuine lack of understanding on this subject is the one who thinks that all of this magically stopped. The wiretapping that Snowden reported on was also illegal at the time, and thinking that it stopped takes an incredible amount of naivete.
Stop sliding the conversation. I never said they collected more data, I said they’ve failed security audits and there is reason to believe they are willingly handing it over the Chinese government and taking direction from the Chinese government.
Nobody is sidelining the conversation, I'm just pointing out that TikTok doesn't actually do anything out of the ordinary. Meanwhile, there is zero evidence for your claim that TikTok takes direction from Chinese government. In fact, it's registered in Singapore, which you evidently weren't aware off.
Lol again, as I said, you’re mistaking culture influence for foreign government influence.
No I'm not. US has both cultural and government influence, and the fact that you don't understand that is absolutely hilarious.
You’re continuously sliding the conversation into trying to make it sound like I feel like US tech has no issues while being critical of Chinese tech. I am critical of both, however I’m not an “utter ignoramus” lmao and I can recognize how fucking stupid of a statement “I prefer China to have my data” is.
You have shown evidence beyond doubt that you are an ignoramus and having no actual argument to make you're just doing mud slinging at this point. 🤣
Imagine not being able to recognize that the government that has power over you having your data is far worse. This demonstrates monumental levels of stupidity.
Edit: Hahaha called it. Check out this dude’s posts, it’s all Chinese and anti-west propaganda.
Imagine being a troll for the US empire. What an utter clown you are.
Yeeaah not looking to discuss anything further with employees of troll farms actually, feel free keep hitting me with downvotes from your alt accounts though
Imagine being so detached from reality to think that anybody who disagrees with you is working for a troll farm. Not being able to even consider that what you said is just dumb and that's why you're getting downvoted is really just a cherry on top. Looks like we have a copy of your employee handbook here:
Shit, I wish I could get paid for telling settlers I'd sell them to their enemy du jour for a corn chip; I might be able to afford medical access, or god forbid, college.
Who said about getting banned?
If I pirate Photoshop, Adobe could come for me if they really wanted to. Canada doesn't care about piracy, you don't need to use a VPN here, but if the American company Adobe really wanted at me, Canada would not stop them.
If I pirated some Chinese software
theretheir government couldn't do shit to me.You know geohot, the guy sued by Sony for hacking the ps3? He was American, but that doesn't change much. If he was Canadian, he would've been fucked just the same. Now if I hacked a Chinese console to enable piracy, literally nothing would happen to me.
If I made a threat on the Presidents life, I would be watched and potentially have American feds knocking on my door. If I threatened China, I would get upvotes and people would laugh.
You're not really understanding what I'm saying. I'm assuming you're American? The country where pretty much every massive company operates from? Well, the rest of the world hates that nearly everything we do is funneled back into the US.
Use Windows? MacOS? Android? iOS? Gmail? Outlook? Yahoo? Microsoft Office? Facebook? Instagram? Reddit?.. the list goes on.
Now imagine if 95% of your data was funneled into a different country. I'm sure you'd hate it. Especially with the state of American politics right now. Your country is dangerous.
I'm not American, I'm Canadian, and I never said that I'm cool with their government's recent developments, but that doesn't mean the Chinese government collecting and using your data to push it's agenda on foreign citizens is better, that's absolutely insane.
And your argument is that you want to freely and openly hack proprietary software and make threats on the US president's life? Lol what the fuck.
Please tell me where China is pushing their agenda on me? My TikTok is full of American and Canadian creators, talking about technology, science, animals, and comedy. Also a bit of food.
That's also not my argument, but congrats on missing the point.
If you don't understand what I'm saying, that's on you. I'm not having a back and forth about this any longer, I escaped Reddit because of that. You can go back there if you want to argue and mix words with others. I'm not having that.
When they kidnap your fucking neighbours and hold them for fucking extortion of your fucking state, that is China pushing their fucking agenda on you, for fucking fuck's sake.
When they religiously persecute CANADIAN CITIZENS in fucking CANADIAN TERRITORY, that's China pushing their agenda on you.
You're unhinged, cannot stay on topic, and your entire profile is trolling.
I am done responding to you for other users sake. They didn't come to lemmy to hear people argue back and forth.
Have a day.
Tanky can't keep feigning ignorance of all the bad shit china does and gives up lmaoooo. Go back to shilling for Pooh Bear on Reddit.
I mean they literally censor and ban creators for anything they deem to be anti-Chinese and then turn around and deny it ever happens, but sure, let's use your personal anecdotal evidence to make our opinions here.
Mix words? I took direct quotes from your comment lol. Glad you left Reddit because you weren't clear enough though I guess
Don't waste your time, the guy is a troll. Just look at the comment history.
Look at YOUR comment history across multiple platforms comrade
Yeah look at it and educate yourself so you don't sound like a clown in the future.
Lol. Your mirror is need of that comment
Are you seriously implying the 'murican government wouldn't get easy access to whatever data an US company has on you?
I'm not implying anything, I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over? And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data from apps that properly implement E2EE. Even WhatsApp, a Meta product ffs, only hands over limited contact info, and big US tech has been increasingly adding E2EE to their apps and lobbying against backdoor access since the public backlash over the Snowden leaks.
But that isn't even the only concern, we're talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I'm against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
As you can probably tell from this thread, it's very easy to say edgy inflammatory like "I'd rather China have my data", but they rarely back it up with anything other than whatifs.
I am absolutely sure it is harder for the US government to get your personal data from US tech companies than it is for the Chinese government to get your data from TikTok.
So am I, but "harder" doesn't mean "hard".
Why would US Republicans be purchasing data from the Cambridge Analytica leak if Facebook was already handing it over?
You're confusing government - particularly the executive power - with political parties. Republicans want to manipulate the opinions of their voter base so they can get elected and be bribed by corporations. The FBI/CIA/Whatever-other-agency want to prevent their secrets from leaking, dominate and subjugate certain groups, and control global shifts of power. They, of course, also investigate illegal activities online, but that's probably a tertiary concern at best.
And this article was posted here the other day showing that the FBI cannot access messaging data [...]
You missed the very important word "legally". We know, however, that the FBI doesn't give a shit about doing things legally.
But that isn’t even the only concern, we’re talking straight foreign influence as a security concern here. Yes, domestic influence is also bad, I’m against propaganda and dangerous censorship of all forms, but one is absolutely worse.
Indeed, one is worse - but I don't believe you're correct in which one it is. Having LIVED a period of clear PsyOps, both internal and external, as well as seen US "security" agencies meddling with my country's government, I'll tell you the US is currently much more dangerous.
You missed the very important word "legally". We know, however, that the FBI doesn't give a shit about doing things legally.
You don't know how end to end encryption works do you? Kinda wasting my time here if you've formed such a strong opinion on something you don't actually understand lol.
YOU don't understand how encryption works, do you?
I do, I work with it, but classic "I know your are but what am I" argument lmao
No, the problem is Chinese-aligned whataboutism, a hallmark of tankie bullshit. People deflect to American spying to justify Tiktok's spying, as if people aren't already mad at Meta, Google, Amazon, and the rest spying on them. On the individual level, one is letting anyone "get away" with spying, so saying Tiktok should "also" be able to get away with spying is complete bullshit. We can be mad about all of these companies spying at us at the same time.
Have you seen anyone respond to criticism about Facebook's tracking policies with "oh but Tiktok also tracks you so you should be okay with this?" Because I sure haven't, but it comes up all the time when people discuss Tiktok. It's just so disingenuous... allow people to discuss topics, we'll get to shitting on Facebook and Google too, don't worry. Detracting every Tiktok convo to that just makes you appear as if you're trying to shove their wrongdoing under the rug.
And if you're talking about foreign policy, western social medias are already blocked in China out of the same national security concerns that's behind a potential Tiktok ban. It is extremely dangerous to allow foreign, especially hostile powers to influence your society through the algorithms of a social media, because they have a very clear incentive to make your population elect the worst possible people and sow chaos. This is why a lot of non-western-aligned countries block western social medias, and this is why the west should also block non-western social medias. It wouldn't be unprecedented.
You are aware thar 'murica, your golden "western democracy", has meddled in many more elections than China, yes? The CIA has been proven to be connected to TWO Brazilian coups...
Which is why I wouldn't blame Brazil if they banned American or otherwise western-aligned social medias. But I'm sorry, "we fucked around with others and therefore we shouldn't ensure our own national security" is a completely lunatic take.
First, neither coup was related to social media. Second, that's a strawman
It really isn't a strawman. There are two ways you can interpret the above meme:
- We shouldn't allow American companies to spy either
- We should allow Chinese companies to spy too
Interpretation #1 is one of the coldest takes possible on the internet. Read the room, no one was excusing American companies of spying, and plenty of people are mad about Meta, Twitter, and the rest. Hell, the whole reason most of us are here on Lemmy is because we grew tired of more corporate social medias. The meme format here implies that the point expressed is controversial, and interpretation #1 is objectively non-controversial, so the meme is either stupid or that's not what it's saying.
And interpretation #2 is exactly what you just called a strawman here. It's complete lunacy and borderline bootlicking to suggest that we should allow other companies to also spy on us. And why exactly? Just because you want to see that team "win", at the expense of all of us losing even more?
But I have to think you're going with interpretation #2, because of this:
First, neither coup was related to social media.
If those coups weren't related to social media, why bring them up? We're discussing social media here. This only makes sense if you're playing the us vs them of geopolitics, and like, just don't.
In the end, we want none of these companies to spy on us. And unlike domestic companies or those headquartered in allied countries, social media companies in hostile countries not only pose a risk to individual privacy, they are also a national security risk. Which is why China bans western social medias, and why the west should also ban Chinese social medias. Both of these measures are a net benefit, and neither of these measures precludes taking action against domestic or allied social medias -- but unlike Bytedance, which is a Chinese company, western regulation can be enforced far easier against western social medias, and the same can be said about Chinese regulation regarding Chinese social medias.