important rulepost

The Holocaust most definitely happened and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don't accuse me of denial.

Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.

Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.

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- I'm not obsessed with Stalin. I'm also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
  I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don't have anything against socialist, being one myself.
  I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
  
  You did not addressed a single point lol you're a broken disc, say the same thing all the time
  
  I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
  this is an american/european thing, not a rest of the world thing. i am not an american, i live elsewhere right now and i am also trans. you simply have been propagandized, and you believe it because you are a product of your environment.
  you are a holocaust denier if you deny that communists fought fascism and instead supported nazism.
  
  It's a semantic argument, then. To me a fascist is a Donald Trump. To me, Facisim is a broad set of characteristics which can be attributed to people outside of the context of Nazi Germany. For example, I might call an ancient emperor a fascist.
  Facisim to you is a political movement linked only to the Nazis and thier allies.
  That's not unfair. It's a different definition of the word.
  
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  Either you have a misunderstanding of what a tankie is in common vernacular, or I do.
  My definition of a tankie is as follows: A "tankie" is a term that originated in British politics, referring to individuals who unconditionally supported actions of the Soviet Union, including the use of military force to suppress dissent. Today, it's often used more broadly to describe those who uncritically support or defend perceived socialist or communist authoritarian regimes, sometimes even in the face of human rights abuses. The term is typically used pejoratively within leftist circles.
  I don't believe a communist is necessarily a tankie, but a tankie would call themselves a communist.
  Personally, as an American, I would never fly an American flag. To me, it represents the violence of the state, the genocide of the indigenous people, and capitalism.
  I believe that the Soviet union, as well as some modern communist states, have largely failed to represent the Marxist vision, and I am extremely critical of people who are embrace the theater of certain communist states.
  
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  Interesting. I don't want to put a burden on you, but you might want to consider that Western people who use the pejorative "tankie" might not be ideologically opposed to you in any particular way, and if you were to instead reply first with what you did just now they might even agree with you.
  I got really triggered when you said I was a Holocaust denier. Maybe you felt the same way with me comparing Stalin with hitler and Andrew Jackson.
  I'm sorry if I made you feel attacked or uncomfortable as a Trans individual. While I personally don't identify as a communist, I have a strong empathy for Marxist. I can only imagine the fear and anxiety you must feel at home, and I hope that you and your allies succeed in building a better world for yourselves.
  
  I appreciate that we began to understand each other. It might be that I don't talk with western socialists enough, I use original definitions for everything.
  
  We can very obviously see how anti-communist revolution in Hungary is going for Hungarian trans people right now.
  To blame "anti-communist revolution" for the decline of LGBT-rights in hungary when much of the anti-LGBT legislation came about near 20-years after Hungary became a democracy and during when the Hungarian Socialist Party, the successor of the Communist Party, was still the largest force in Hungarian politics is disingenuous.
  I would like to point out that the word tankie was used to refer to people that specifically supported the Hungarian communists request for military aid against revolution in Hungary. (...) So in the original sense of the word, I am a tankie.
  ...it's nice that you're honest about being anti-democratic and that you have no qualms about calling yourself tankie in that context. Are you a "little green man" as well?
  
  I'm not a man, and its very obvious that I am not a man given pronouns in bio and my username.
- Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin's first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
  
  This is myopic. Stalin invaded Poland because it refused to cooperate with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. The Nazis and USSR weren't just raiding North Africa cooperatively, it was a geographical necessity to the Soviets attacking Nazi Germany that they be able to have their military on Germany's border!
  How the hell are the Soviets supposed to attack Nazi Germany if Poland says the Soviets aren't welcome on its land?
  
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  BASED
- Do you deny the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact and the illegal attack on Poland by the Soviet union under its leader Josef Stalin?
  
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  No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
  
  I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
  
  So what about the Soviet Union doing ethnic cleansings in the parts of Poland they conquered? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_(1939%E2%80%931946)
  
  from what i am reading, these are polish military officer's bodies. poland's military was known for pogroms against jews during the nazi occupation, and that was a sentence of death in the soviet union. as for the other claims, many civilian populations, including many millions of russians, were moved beyond the urals in order to evade firebombing campaigns. some of these groups stayed, but many left after the war.
  sexual crimes happen in war and people who commit them should be killed.
  
  Oh so it's fine that the Soviet Union displaced their government and murdered anyone who opposed them?
  
  it is fine to save hundreds of thousands of lives from firebombing, yes. war is never pretty and you must protect civilians by moving them away from the ever-advancing front line.
  
  Ethnic cleansing is when you kill military officers, no I'm not just trying to twist things into "genocide" to score cheap political points
  
  Not when it kills millions through starvation --> holodomor
  
  we discussed that elsewhere
  
  https://www.villagevoice.com/2020/11/21/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
  
  The only evil person here is you. How can you not only defend but celebrate a regime that during its reign of terror during the occupation of Poland put over 500-thousand Poles in prison, committed the Katyn Massacre, deported 1.7-million Poles to Siberia, raped over a 100-thousand women, and murdered over 150-thousand additonal Poles in cold blood, and then robbed Poland of the independence it had achieved after WW1, after 200-years of attempted cultural genocide by the Russian Empire?
  I am half-Polish, my father was born in Communist Poland - tell me how your crackhead ideology justifies your abhorrent views. Tell me how the Soviets rounding up innocent Poles and murdering them in cold blood, like happened to the families and friends of my grandparents, is to be celebrated as the Soviets "saving" anyone; how subjugating the Polish people and state for the next 40-years was something good.
  You're simply a disgusting PoS, a certified A-grade fucking tankie.
  
  jeez, i wish you were deported to siberia, youre fucking dumb and should be breaking rocks with your forehead
  also werent you that pedophile on lemmy.ml that everyone was laughing at
  
  It's very clear you're unhinged. Bye.
  
  It's clear she like to pick fights but maybe you could put that in a way that isn't disparaging to people with mental illnesses?
  
  Threatens users

I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn't care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it's own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.

vague criteria. you can argue any country you dont like is under a dictatorship of whatever and is led by a cult of personality. you should be concerned about more realistic things, like supporting unions in your country, helping marginalized people, that sort of thing. not punching down at socialists.
- My comments are split now, so I'll let you read my other one. I would just like to emphasize that I consider myself a socialist, and that it's not really that vague of a criteria for the purposes of an Internet argument. It's just broad. I believe all current world superpowers current share elements of fascism which I despise and oppose.
  
  i agree that america is genocidal. no reason for you to hatepost about communists when we agree with so much.
  
  What's your excuse for the holodomor?
  
  famine is terrible, and it was caused by western sanctions and invasions of the soviet union and even other regions of the world. please note that many western armies looted and burned their way through ukraine during the civil war, and america itself occupied vladivostok in the east even. it is also important to think that if the soviet union sought to kill all ukrainians, why didnt they? after ww2, there was no one stopping them.
  it is also important to note that almost every region of the world experienced famine during this time, and these famines led to radicalization in many forms. my grandfather was a survivor of famine from similar causes.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor The Holodomor happened before WW2 dipshit. Tankies really can't resist genocide denial huh? Fits right in with you defending the Soviet Union teaming up with the nazis.
  
  You're the dipshit if you think that WW2 was the first time the USSR was invaded. Are you not familiar with the incredible number of capitalist countries that invaded during the Russian Civil War in order to reverse the revolution? I don't think it's particularly relevant to the famine, but assuming she meant WW2 is ridiculous.
  https://www.villagevoice.com/2020/11/21/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
  
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  Stalin purposely diverted shipments of grain away from Ukraine, he made a deliberate effort to starve and repress his political enemies.
  
  You nailed it. Stalin pushed a cultural and physical genocide in order to subjugate the Ukranian people. He pushed the narrative that they were not an independent nation or nationality hence "the ukraine" not Ukraine.
- You're a spineless coward, just admit you're fine with genocide and totalitarianism so long as they have a red flag.
  
  Genocide is horrible. That's why I have so much respect for the USSR for stopping the Nazi menace.
  
  👏
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
  So I guess it's just not genocide when the Soviet Union does it?
  
  The Soviets bravely fought against the Nazis and put a stop to the Holocaust. For that alone, they should have all of our respect.
  
  Oh so if you fight someone doing a genocide you get to commit some of your own for free? Wasn't aware that special was still going. Also again ignoring the Soviets were happy to help nazi germany when it was convenient for them.
  
  No of course not. While it is commendable that the Americans fought on the side of justice in WW2, it does not make up for their genocides. The Soviets however did not commit any genocide.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD
  Turns out you can say anyone didn't commit genocide if you just ignore history.
  
  Now even the Great Purge is being called a genocide. 💀
  
  Hitler bravely killed Hitler, is that enough to respect him?

And then they killed millions of people to enforce Stalin's autocracy. How, exactly, is that better than Hitler?

this is holocaust denial, you are a fascist. good job on being a shitstain
- All tankies ever have is name-calling.

Because they were attacked. Otherwise they would have happily sat out of ww2.

Nazism as an ideology set out to eradicate those seen as impure, and two of the most prominent of those targeted groups were communists and Slavic people. Hitler literally wanted to kill everyone who identified as a socialist. To think that the USSR was unaware or tolerant of this fact is a truly awful take.
- Wow a commie who doesnt know history, not surprising. Firstly I never said USSR didnt know what Germany was doing, I said they didnt care. This is backed up by history. Yes Hitler hated the soviets and they probably disliked him to but they tolerated him and his crimes against humanity enough to form an alliance and work together. A little timeline of events to refresh your memory: 1939 USSR signs a non aggression pact with Germany. This pact includes plans to divide eastern europe between USSR and Germany, a clause that prevents the USSR from allying or aiding enemies of Germany. Shortly after Germany and the USSR double team Poland and split it up between them. After Stalin used the attack to capture a few eastern european countries he asked to join the Axis powers treaty. Stalin was warned multiple times that Germany was preparing to backstab him but rejected the warnings as he thought they were so allies. After it was confirm that Hitler had betrayed him he spent several days sulking in his holiday house refusing to communicate with his generals.
  There is no way you can reasonably say that USSR disapproved of Hitlers action and Ideology. The only thing he would have had an issue with is that Hitler hated slavic people. He was even willing to put that aside because they both had authoritarianism in common.
  
  Stalin was warned multiple times that Germany was preparing to backstab him but rejected the warnings as he thought they were so allies
  He underestimated how quickly Germany would attack and that was a massive fuck-up that resulted in a huge amount of death from the ensuing genocide by the Nazis, but that's not because he thought Germany and the Soviet Union were "allies".
  He was even willing to put that aside because they both had authoritarianism in common.
  This is such an insipid statement. "Authoritarianism" isn't an ideology, it is a methodology. What, are you saying that they had common cause against the wholesome democratic west that rejected Stalin's requests to form an anti-fascist alliance and crush Nazi Germany?
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- Did you finish your book halfway through? Hitler and Stalin formed an alliance shortly after the Spanish civil war. Even though Hitler referred to Slavic people as untermench Stalin still signed treaties because they were at the end of the day both Fascist Authoritarian dictators and dont give a single fuck about committing crimes against humanity.
  
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  This is so stupid and you provide part of your own refutation. Molotov-Ribbentrop was not an "alliance", it was a non-aggression pact and an agreement limiting the amount of Poland that the Nazis could invade. Where the Nazis invaded Poland, they committed genocide. Where the Soviets invaded (since Poland refused their earlier offers to ally against Germany), they evacuated the Jewish population from the front lines of the inevitable invasion.

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