19h ago

Trump announces US plan to 'own' and develop the Gaza strip – video

www.theguardian.com Trump announces US plan to 'own' and develop the Gaza strip – video

Trump said he would probably announce a position on Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank in the next month

After calling for the permanent ‘resettlement’ of all Palestinians from Gaza earlier in the day, Trump said the US would 'take over' and 'own' the Gaza Strip. The US president said he envisioned 'long-term' US ownership of Gaza after Palestinians were moved elsewhere

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56 comments

Great job protist voters!
You saved Gaza from Biden!
- Keep these coming. Don't let these people forget their culpability in single-issuing us to fascism or let them blame shift.
  
  Agreed, 100%. People spouting that nonsense should be laughed and pointed at IRL when they start up with their nonsense.
  
  Yes keep saying this it will ensure people vote for democrats next time! It won’t alienate the shrinking base at all. People love it when you blame them for not voting for a candidate that did nothing to address people’s concerns or issues!
  
  Next time?
  
  Who paved the road in which is now being driven?
  There's no reason to infight we're all on the same side against fascism and western hegemony.
  
  Ok prove it get your republican goons to enforce the checks and balances against what’s happening.
  Until then you’re not on any side against this.
  
  your republican goons
  What are you even talking about man? I'm about as far away from Republican as it gets. Try having a conversation before lobbing insults, I know it's hard nowadays but it can be done.
  
  we’re all on the same side against fascism and western hegemony
  Wouldn't it be nice if it were true. But let's not fool ourselves, it's far from true.
  
  I agree and would love to work towards a world where that is true, unfortunately people love their infighting.
  Doing anything is far better than arguing about what and where the blame is placed infinitely.
  
  we're all on the same side against fascism
  Then where were those people in November when it freaking mattered?
  I'm absolutely entitled to hold a grudge against the single-issuers who helped get us here. Actions, or in this case, inactions have consequences, and I'm not going to coddle them when they come crawling back to reality after they were told over and over again what was at stake.
  
  Your argument is only valid to an EXTREMELY small selection of people in 4 battleground states, but you project it to every leftist who criticized the Biden Kamala admin for allowing Gaza to be destroyed.
  It's much easier to place blame on made up people who have no power than it is to place the blame on the fact that our government systems have allowed this to happen. Why did the Democrats maintain full control of congress and yet nothing was done. They are the ones who held the power to stop this, yet nothing was done. Do not blame 10,000 individuals some with family who have been killed in Gaza when the blame should be placed on our government systems and Democratic parties.
  We should instead be uniting on solutions to these problems not shoving blame down leftists throats who the vast majority of are not responsible for the problem at hand.
  
  That's a lot of blame shifting there.
  The facts are:
  Our elections are FPTP and no amount of wishing it was otherwise was going to change that
  Even if people thought Harris wouldn't have been great, it took zero additional brain cells to realize Trump ~~would have been~~ ~~will be~~ is infinitely worse.
  Yes, I will "shove it down the leftists throats", as you say, since they were big cheerleaders against voting for the only candidate that stood a chance of defeating Trump. Sowing doubt/division when we should have been unified against that threat (wasn't that what you were originally chastising me for?)
  The people failed, not the government. We had a free and fair election, saw what was at stake, and still people decided to sit it out or throw their vote away.
  I haven't browsed your history, and at this point, I don't care to, but if that's the kind of messaging you were throwing out up to November, then YOU. ARE. AT. LEAST. PARTIALLY. RESPONSIBLE.
  
  -The people failed, not the government. We had a free and fair election, saw what at stake, and still people decided to sit it out or throw their vote away.
  Insane take and that's all I have left to say 😂. Feel free to continue supporting democrats on your hedonic treadmill instead of moving towards a better world for everyone.
- “Oh I wouldn’t say saved, more like under new management.”
- Dawg, kammy lost by 2 million votes. Protest voters are a slim, slim, part of that 2 million. America saved Gaza from Biden.
  
  Because the guy wants to bulldoze it and turn it into Vegas is the better option?
  
  Third party votes number around a little over 3 million.
  So you know.
  
  Like 10m democrats stayed home.
- Trump is continuing what Biden started and Harris would have continued. The United States' fully bipartisan, murderous foreign policy is a stain on humanity and anyone who supports candidates with murderous policy is culpable.
  
  Quoting @jordanlund@lemmy.world:
  Harris stated multiple times that she wanted a cease fire and a two state solution. Polar opposite of Trumps “sweep them out and take over.”
  July:
  https://www.the-independent.com/tv/news/kamala-harris-says-two-state-solution-is-the-only-path-after-meeting-with-netanyahu-b2586161.html
  August:
  https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
  September:
  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-harris-says-two-state-solution-end-of-israel-hamas-war-is-crucial
  October:
  https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/harris-dodges-direct-question-on-palestinian-deaths-calls-for-2-state-solution-during-cnn-town-hall/3372480
  Every month from becoming the nominee until the election: cease fire, hostage release, two state solution.
  These are not genocidal statements.
  Trump?
  https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
  “But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
  And you're an instance admin, yikes. Do better.
  
  Her stated position was identical to that of Biden as he signed off on the mass slaughter: No end to weapon shipments or any tangible support to current admin. Just the meaningless promise of a two state solution for the fiftieth year and reaffirmations of "Israel's right to defend itself". Plain as day to anyone who isn't a party loyalist. Even Trump was somewhat more diplomatic about his position pre-election. If she had taken a different position, she would be in the white house today and we both know it (and that has nothing to do with protest votes and is just how elections work).
  
  I'm not an admin, I'm a mod and I can't do better than citing my sources FIVE TIMES.
  I can't make you accept it, or believe it, but if you reject reality that's on you, not me.
  
  Mate, I was talking about / to the parent commenter, Sami. They are a lemmy.zip instance admin
  
  Time to take my alt account elsewhere...
  
  Sorry, I get a lot of hate for stating facts and citing sources. Knee jerk from me at 3:53 AM. ;)
  
  All good, I was more confused than anything. Being a mod for US related things is quite the challenge at the moment. Thanks for your service.
  
  De nada. What's hilarious to me now is the resident troll running afoul of the admins and blaming me for deleting all their bullshit while I was asleep. LOL.
  Admins are not screwing around and if the account was created in the past few minutes from an open sign up source like lemmy.cafe, it is under a freaking microscope.
  
  Is that the current hand-waiving you all have chosen to use?
  “Well, it was already going to happen exactly like this anyway!”
  …. While not one of you even called anything happening that was remotely anywhere close to this. Meanwhile, we all told you almost exactly they this would happen.
  
  What do you think was going to happen under the democrats?
  
  I didn’t see the Harris administration conquering Gaza Strip and planting an American flag on it, or all trans people being denied military service and losing protections against discrimination, or them installing a non-elected blowhard weasel to run the financial department of our government.
  I also didn’t see the Harris administration wasting time money and energy in renaming the Gulf of Mexico, or making threats to other countries, or talk about conquering Greenland, Mexico, and Canada.
  I didn’t see them plunging the US into several soon-to-be failed trade wars.
  I didn’t see the Harris administration removing DEI protections for marginalized people, or scrubbing any trace of mention about trans people from government run websites.
  I didn’t see them pulling American out of environmental agreements, or dismantling the entire education department.
  I didn’t see the Harris administration firing governmental employees that investigated trump for his multiple criminal acts, or revamping the Justice Department with her own personal lawyers.
  Seriously, do you even read the news? Do you think nothing else’s is happening aside from the one issue you can’t seem to look away from? Is your entitlement so blinding that you cannot see in the periphery? Not a single fucking person ever said shit would be ideal under Harris and the democrats-
  …but we KNEW it wouldn’t be this shit.
  So… we get to say we told you this would happen. We get to blame this on you. We get to have this consolation of righteous indignation because we were the ones that tried to stop it while all you get to claim responsibility for is effectively protesting trump into office-
  intentionally, or not.
  
  Voting for Harris was always going to be an attempt to buy more time for more effective change measures, for pushing progressive support in primaries and local elections, for building public perception that the left actually has a chance and can make a difference. It was never going to fix things –nothing can do so quickly, because cultural change takes time – but prevent the worst so that there might be more time for other measures that would set a better course.
  But some people opted to let perfect be the enemy of "not as bad" and call their complacency noble, so I guess that option is off the table now.
  
  I voted for Harris for the same reason I voted for Biden: herpes is not as bad as ass cancer.
  Do I want either? Hell, no. But differences in degree matter.
  
  Well said. And they still entrench themselves in their entitlement thinking that somehow- it’s the people who voted for the one person that could stop him alongside the one person that could stop him- that helped get him elected.
  It couldn’t have had anything at all to do with people who couldn’t be bothered to vote at all, or people that purposefully voted third party to “send a message” as they called it.
  Now, their protest was either successful or a colossal failure, depending on how you frame their responsibility for the outcome.
  
  I think many just don't understand or don't want to understand the complexity of the public opinion guessing game that is attempting to break the vile equilibrium of a two-party-system without spoilering the worse party into power.
  At least that's what I hope, because the alternative is that they actually think Trump is better and I'm trying to get out of the habit of assuming the worst.
  
  many just don’t understand or don’t want to understand the complexity of the public opinion guessing game
  In game-theoretic terms, it's trivial. Unless your third party comes from nowhere to a wide majority in the polls well before election day, choose the lesser evil and STFU until next time. That's the only strategy that doesn't lead us into a mess like the one we're in now.
  
  That's what I mean. Voting third party isn't reasonable, unless it polls well enough ahead of time that it becomes a viable choice for people to risk their vote being wasted for the chance to pick a better option. But even then, they need to trust those polls and need to hope that enough other people come to the same conclusion to actually make it so...
  If you want to break the two-party-stranglehold, you have to vote third party, but only if enough other people vote third party, and that kind of "guessing motives" or trusting in the other actors to make individually irrational but collectively rational decisions is where Game Theory breaks down.
  The theory is clear, but humans aren't quite so easy to model, and when your game features piles and piles of incomplete information and non-deterministic decisions, things get muddy.
  
  It’s really just plain and simple garden variety entitlement. You’ll find that people with little to lose themselves, have absolutely no issue whatsoever when it comes to sacrificing things that others have to lose.
  Wether it be white privilege, affluence, being cis, male, what have you…
  The end result will be the same:
  People will suffer, and when the smoke has cleared, the entitled will refuse to be held accountable.
  
  This discussion is specifically about Gaza and the region. Gaza would have still be demolished during a Harris administration and the political goals of the Israeli regime would be unchanged.
  Yes, Trump and his ilk are horrible for Americans and world stability. That has been the case for a decade unfortunately the opposition hasn't been able to garner enough votes to beat an incredibly unpopular candidate by forcing even more unpopular candidates on people for 3 consecutive elections. Blame people who voted for Trump for him being in office but don't blame people who did not vote for his opposition for the opposition's failure to provide compelling candidates. It's no different than Trump blaming the EU for not buying more US products.
  
  Nice counterfactual, but in reality, you have no idea what would have happened if Harris won. Nobody does.
  And another dose of reality: abstaining from voting against Trump was collusion in electing him. You had agency and you fucked up. Don't blame Harris for not being perfect enough for you. You had wrong expectations and a wrong strategy.
  
  Naah. I’m going to blame the people that could have tipped the balance by voting against trump.
  His voters did what they were supposed to do.
  
  Are you really gonna “both parties” on this issue?
  
  Cope harder.
  
  You are dangerously ignorant

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