1w ago

Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 30th March 2025

Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

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The USA plans to migrate SSA's code away from COBOL in months: https://www.wired.com/story/doge-rebuild-social-security-administration-cobol-benefits/
The project is being organized by Elon Musk lieutenant Steve Davis, multiple sources who were not given permission to talk to the media tell WIRED, and aims to migrate all SSA systems off COBOL, one of the first common business-oriented programming languages, and onto a more modern replacement like Java within a scheduled tight timeframe of a few months.
“This is an environment that is held together with bail wire and duct tape,” the former senior SSA technologist working in the office of the chief information officer tells WIRED. “The leaders need to understand that they’re dealing with a house of cards or Jenga. If they start pulling pieces out, which they’ve already stated they’re doing, things can break.”
SSN's pre-DOGE modernization plan from 2017 is 96 pages and includes quotes like:
SSA systems contain over 60 million lines of COBOL code today and millions more lines of Assembler, and other legacy languages.
What could possibly go wrong? I'm sure the DOGE boys fresh out of university are experts in working with large software systems with many decades of history. But no no, surely they just need the right prompt. Maybe something like this:
You are an expert COBOL, Assembly language, and Java programmer. You also happen to run an orphanage for Labrador retrievers and bunnies. Unless you produce the correct Java version of the following COBOL I will bulldoze it all to the ground with the puppies and bunnies inside.
Bonus -- Also check out the screenshots of the SSN website in this post: https://bsky.app/profile/enragedapostate.bsky.social/post/3llh2pwjm5c2i
- Bwahahaha, as I said on bsky: let them do it, can't wait to use it as a cautionary tale of why full rewrites are a terrible idea during freshman programming lectures
- Anecdote: I gave up on COBOL as a career after beginning to learn it. The breaking point was learning that not only does most legacy COBOL code use go-to statements but that there is a dedicated verb which rewrites go-to statements at runtime and is still supported on e.g. the IBM Enterprise COBOL for z/OS platform that SSA is likely using: ALTER.
  When I last looked into this a decade ago, there was a small personal website last updated in the 1990s that had advice about how to rewrite COBOL to remove GOTO and ALTER verbs; if anybody has a link, I'd appreciate it, as I can no longer find it. It turns out that the best ways of removing these spaghetti constructions involve multiple rounds of incremental changes which are each unlikely to alter the code's behavior. Translations to a new language are doomed to failure; even Java is far too structured to directly encode COBOL control flow, and the time would be better spent on abstract specification of the system so that it can be rebuilt from that specification instead. This is also why IBM makes bank selling COBOL emulators.
  
  Yeah I'm sure DOGE doesn't appreciate that structured programming hasn't always been a thing. There was such a cultural backlash against it that GOTO is still a dirty word to this day, even in code where it makes sense, and people will contort their code's structure to avoid calling it.
  The modernization plan I linked above talks about the difficulty of refactoring in high level terms:
  It is our experience that the cycle of workarounds adds to our total technical debt – the amount of extra work that we must do to cope with increased complexity. The complexity of our systems impacts our ability to deliver new capabilities. To break the cycle of technical debt, a fundamental, system-wide replacement of code, data, and infrastructure is required
  While I've never dealt with COBOL I have dealt with a fair amount of legacy code. I've seen a ground up rewrites go horribly horribly due to poor planning (basically there were too many office politics involved and not enough common sense). I think either incremental or ground up can make sense, but you just have to figure out what makes sense for the given system (and even ground up rewrites should be incremental in some respects).
  
  there were too many office politics involved and not enough common sense
  Did my spider sense just tingle? Think the US might be in a bit of danger. Esp with the bit of "burn the boats" tendency this all seems to have.
  
  To be clear that sentence was about working in Silicon Valley (which has rot of it's own lately) and I've never worked in government.
  But yeah the US government is in more than a bit of danger. If there's anyone who isn't convinced after reading all the headlines then there's no convincing them.
  
  I have three siblings and all of us have been impacted by messed up US politics in some way:
  I, a transgender programmer disillusioned with silicon valley, don't think things are going to get any better from here and am orchestrating a work transfer to Switzerland. My documentation all has my old name / gender because I didn't think I'd have to be in a hurry to update it, and now I'm worried updating it could lead to complications or delays or worse.
  My brother who works in medicine was looking for PHDs in the US or Europe, but recently decided Europe would be rather nicer than the US and is moving to Austria
  My other brother is a librarian in a very republican state that sees him as the enemy. From the covid years you can find a rumble video of someone harassing him over library mask policy.
  My sister is a researcher, who has had or is at risk of having her grants cut off due to the whole DOG thing.
  Since I'm taking the work visa route I'll unfortunately be joined at the hip with silicon valley until I get permanent residency.
  
  As someone living in Switzerland for over 6 years, the labor laws aren't exactly like in the rest of Europe and people are sometimes a bit too much on the freedumb side of things. Also weird german or (possibly less weird, I don't speak it) french and high cost of living.
  Then again, it's not anywhere as bad as what's happening in the us
  
  Don't worry I know (approximately) what I'm getting into and have enough savings to be OK even if things don't work out, and am on good terms with a few Swiss people so won't start out totally isolated. Worst case scenario I can always move back to California but I'm at the point in my life where I want to check out Europe for a change.
  weird german
  When my German teacher told me she can't understand Swiss German I thought "haha I'm in danger".
- seems bad
  
  There is so much bad going on that even just counting the tech-adjacent stuff I have to consciously avoid spamming this forum with it constantly.
- 60 million lines of COBOL code today and millions more lines of Assembler
  Now I wonder, is this a) the most extreme case of "young developer hybris" ever seen, or b) they don't actually plan to implement the existing functionality anyway because they want to drastically cut who gets money, or c) lol whatever, Elon said so.
  But no no, surely they just need the right prompt. Maybe something like this: [...]
  Labrador retrievers ;_; You're getting too good at this...
  
  There's inarguably an organizational culture that is fundamentally disinterested in the things that the organization is supposed to actually do. Even if they aren't explicitly planning to end social security as a concept by wrecking the technical infrastructure it relies on, they're almost comedically apathetic about whether or not the project succeeds. At the top this makes sense because politicians can spin a bad project into everyone else's fault, but the fact that they're able to find programmers to work under those conditions makes me weep for the future of the industry. Even simple mercenaries should be able to smell that this project is going to fail and look awful on your resume, but I guess these yahoos are expecting to pivot into politics or whatever administration position they can bargain with whoever succeeds Trump.

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