With the massacre of hundreds of Palestinians waiting for aid, we are forgetting the true victims.

Check your votes.. No one is buying this.. We all see what is happening. But you are a bot so not sure why I'm replying to you.

Israel is a genocide state.

I heard this a lot. The reality is, if hamas surrender now, they will still be out there looking for hamas, because no one know how many hamas is out there, who is the hamas, or when will hamas strike.

You might be right, but to some degree that also means that hamas brought this over their own people.

The nazis in Germany for example did the same, and whole citys where bombed by the allies. So would you blame the nazis or the allies for this? I think there where a lot of war crimes on both sides back then, nevertheless it started because of the cruelties of Hitlerers entourage. And the German people did not fight this régime which made them accomplices at least according to historians.

This does not mean that I support how the IDF operates. The hole thing that got us in this situation this time is because the hamas attacked civilians in an monstrously way and did this over years with their missiles as far as I can tell. So I would blame them at first also the palestinians should have fought hamas their selfs.

But maybe I am wrong, so I am listening.
- hamas brought this over their own people
  
  This started in 1917. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
  
  Then there was Nakba in 1948. Literally catastrophe. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nakba-palestine-catastrophe-explained
  
  Hamas was founded in 1988 and revised their charter in 2017. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
  
  nazis in Germany for example did the same
  
  Comparing a resistance movement against a colonizing occupier to the actions that two industrialized nations took against each other during wartime is not really the best way to frame this. If we look at the colonial expansion of the United States against the Native tribes and collectives that were already here, that had established their own system of governing based on mutual collaboration, it gives us a better perspective and context.
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- You know, i don't really wanna engage with these "they brought it upon themselves" argument, because it's really just gonna spiral down into endless back and forth where the origin is only remotely resemble the issue today. To say palestinian deserve what they get because of Hamas is like saying Israeli deserve what they get because of Netanyahu.
  
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  You didn't explicitly say "deserving", you're implying. Heavily. There's no strawman.
  
  Isolating this situation in such a narrow timeline doesn't make it better either, it's a very complex issue that need to have a clear separation between modern conflict and past. Which is why I don't want to engage in discussing, people will either only isolate the whole situation to the current conflict or be very quickly point out the ancient history.
  
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When Lebanon laid down their arms and surrendered with security guarantee from the US that they wold not be harmed, israel committed mass rape and Genocide. This is also where they stole the "pregnant women with the baby ripped out" story from. Israel actually did that themselves:

Sabra and Shatila massacre

Janet Lee Stevens, an American journalist, later wrote to her husband, Dr. Franklin Lamb, "I saw dead women in their houses with their skirts up to their waists and their legs spread apart; dozens of young men shot after being lined up against an alley wall; children with their throats slit, a pregnant woman with her stomach chopped open, her eyes still wide open, her blackened face silently screaming in horror; countless babies and toddlers who had been stabbed or ripped apart and who had been thrown into garbage piles."

"(...)It was perpetrated by the Lebanese Forces The killings are widely believed to have taken place under the command of Lebanese politician Elie Hobeika, whose family and fiancée had been murdered by Palestinian militants and left-wing Lebanese militias during the Damour massacre in 1976, itself a response to the Karantina massacre(...)"

"(...)The primary responsibility for the massacre is generally attributed to Elie Hobeika. Robert Maroun Hatem, Elie Hobeika's bodyguard, stated in his book From Israel to Damascus that Hobeika ordered the massacre of civilians in defiance of Israeli instructions to behave like a "dignified" army.(...)"

This never stops does it?
- https://www.hrw.org/news/2001/06/22/israel-sharon-investigation-urged
  
  As Defense Minister, Ariel Sharon had overall responsibility over the Israeli Defense Forces and allowed Phalangist militias to enter the camps where they terrorized the residents for three days.
  
  During the BBC program, Morris Draper, the U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East at the time, said that U.S. officials were horrified when told Sharon had allowed Phalange militias into West Beirut and the camps “because it would be a massacre.” He told the BBC that after the killings began he cabled Defense Minister Sharon, telling him, “You must stop the slaughter…. The situation is absolutely appalling. They are killing children. You have the field completely under your control and are therefore responsible for that area.”
  
  Lebanese israel-backed anti-Palestinian Fascists which were pointed to the camp by israel, armed with weapons. The IDF knew very well they would commit that massacare, the IDF which surrounded the camp made sure to defend the Phalangist militias while they commited their massacare.
  
  Do you even read your own sources? I will not quote your next source for you too. Just read it. It's not as simple as you want to make it seem.
  
  The Kahan Commission (named after the President of the Israeli Supreme Court) that investigated the massacre in 1983 concluded that “Minister of Defense [Sharon] bears personal responsibility” and should “draw the appropriate personal conclusions arising out of the defects revealed with regard to the manner in which he discharged the duties of his office.” The commission recommended that Prime Minister Menachem Begin remove Sharon from office if he did not resign. Sharon did resign as minister of defense, though he subsequently assumed other cabinet positions. Annexes of the commission report have not yet been made public, and it is not known if they contain additional information specific to Sharon´s involvement.
  
  By all accounts, the perpetrators of this indiscriminate slaughter were members of the Phalange (or Kata´eb, in Arabic) militia, a Lebanese force that was armed by and closely allied to Israel since the outbreak of Lebanon´s civil war in 1975. It must be noted, however, that the killings were carried out in an area under IDF control. An IDF forward command post was situated on the roof of a multi-story building located some 200 meters southwest of the Shatilla camp.
  
  I guess these people can't read either because if it's israels responsibility that sure sounds like israel did it.
  
  Maybe you can send the Human Rights Watch a message to correct them. Be sure to link your wikipedia quote.
  
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  And I think it would help (at least not harm anyone) if israel (which is a Nazi ethostate) would lay their arms down.
  
  Hey you know what they could do to solve this? A permanent ceasefire! Which Hamas agree to (wow)!
  
  Guess who doesn't?
  
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  Strange why did so many children die from bombs in Gaza in 2023 before that "ceasefire"?
  
  Is a ceasefire when israel kills people and they don't fight back?
  
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every hamas member could surrender tomorrow and the IDF will still find an excuse to keep war criming civilians

Ah, yes, and Israel will just continue their occupation and genocide of Gaza indefinitely. There's a reason Hamas exists you moron.

Thanks that helped the discussion. And changed my view.
- Why so serious citizen?
  
  Because my power brake just slides over my big wheel.