My ISP has taken total control of my network
My ISP has taken total control of my network
This is very troubling, and I'm not even sure where to start. I recently received an email message from my ISP which alerted me to an incoming update. I didn't worry too much since this is obviously not the first update they've ever pushed through.
However, after this update, I noticed that my guest connections and some other things had changed / disappeared. I logged on to my router, and I immediately noticed my custom password had been reset to the default. No problem, I entered it.
At this point, I saw that all of my options were greyed out. I could change the password, which I did, but nothing else. I immediately called my ISP.
I was told that I would have to use their app now, so as much as I dislike using proprietary phone apps, I conceded and installed the app through the Play store.
However, the agent was not entirely honest with me. I still can't bifurcate my 2.4g and 5g connections, nor can I add or remove any guest connections. I immediately enabled "privacy mode" via the app, which purportedly prevents information from being collected by something called "HomePass," and I "Delete[d] Guard events" whatever the hell that means, but this seems really troubling. I can no longer access my modem/router settings via the normal interface, but have to use an Android app?
There is only one other ISP in my area. They have much worse/slower service, but should I switch, or is this just the "new normal"? Does what I'm describing even make sense? I'm not a tech expert, but I feel like I've self-taught myself how to navigate these settings, and learned from others in online forums, but now ... an Android app?
I'd appreciate any advice. I'd even be willing to purchase my own modem/router instead of using the one from my ISP, if that fixes this mess.
Edit: So I need my own router, at least. I did some research, and these are the ones I can get locally that are within my budget:
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TP-Link Archer AC1900 Dual-Band Mu-Mimo Wi-Fi Router with Gigabit Port
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Linksys AC1200 Dual Band WiFi 5 Router
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TP-Link Archer AX1500 WiFi 6 Dual-Band Wireless Router | up to 1.5 Gbps Speeds
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TP-Link Archer C54 | AC1200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band WiFi Router
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NETGEAR - Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi Router, 1.9Gbps (R6900) I’VE BEEN WARNED AGAINST NETGEAR THOUGH IN OTHER FORUMS
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TP-Link | AX1800 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 1.8 Gbps Speeds
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TP-Link Archer AX3000 | 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 3 Gbps Speeds
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Linksys E7350 AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Wireless Router
Am I right in thinking the TP-Link AX3000 is best?
Edit 2: At first, I bought the Netgear AC1900, which seemed like a great deal. Turns out it was unusable without creating a netgear account, so I returned it in exchange for the TP-Link Archer AX1500, and it appears to be working! I got everything set up pretty close to the way it was before, except even better.
Once I save money, I'll also invest in a different modem and return this one to my ISP.
This was a big wake-up call for me in terms of privacy. I never listened to people saying not to use your ISP's equipment because I always trusted my ISP (it's not one of the big name ones). Never trust a company. Lesson learned. I appreciate all the responses I got! This community is great!
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Get. Rid. Of. Their. Router.
ISP provided networking routers are inherently garbage. They don't want users messing with that, because your average user doesn't even know what the fuck an ethernet cable is and will break everything by fucking around in it.
Run your own router and put theirs into modem only mode with routing and wifi disabled. If that's not an option ask their tech support if you can buy your own DOCSIS/fiber modem (or whatever hardware you use) and return their hardware. If they also don't allow that.... well, switch or just suck it and deal with it while the ISP rubs their nipples some more.
https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/j7kzcvmllm7.png
So I can't disable wireless mode. This too is greyed out, and it also doesn't let me disable wireless via the app. (When I try, it throws a popup that says "You must have at least one network."
So is my best bet to get my own modem with router built in, or could I still connect a router to this, but never use the wifi connection through their equipment? I don't have a lot of money, so I also want to be a bit mindful of cost.
I'd check to see if your provider has an approved modem list, buy one off that and then run your own router.
So I will want a separate router vs. buying one that has it built in? I can use whatever router I want, right? That part doesn't have to be from the list.
Any combo modem router is typically trash and you NEED separate modem because if you get a combo you will be in the same situation. They will flash the combo unit with the same firmware wether you own it or not.
You will want an aris modem from there approved list and a good wireless router. When you swap out your modem you will need to call in so they can flash it with thier firmware (which is fine). You can then configure your router as needed.
I can't recommend a wireless router because I have a Unifi household and have been out of the consumer space for a while. I hear netgear nighthawk are still creame of the crop though.
Wow, so ISPs can usually flash custom firmware on a 3rd party router? I'm surprised that capability exists, although I can kinda see the rationale for why it does.
No but to modems they can because the modem needs to talk to their equipment.
Can ISP's really flash firmware to a 3rd party router? That's wild. I'm not sure that's happened to me before, and I've been forced to use Comcast/xfinity my whole adult life. I've had multiple Arris modems, and whenever I check their status page, it was always Arris branded, and stayed the same before and after hooking it up and registering it with the ISP.
I always assumed the rigamarole of registering a personal modem was simply a white listing process (give MAC address, receive internet). I'll have to look more into it, I didn't know there was anything else going on.
You are going to get more functionality if you buy separate devices. A combo router is going to give you less flexibility in the future. That is why you keep getting that recommendation.
That makes sense, thanks. As much as I try to educate myself, I'm a soft sciences guy and a bit of a misfit when it comes to this type of thing :P
Also keep in mind that you’ll be free of whatever rental fee they were charging you to use their modem/router.
Damn, you're not wong! I've had this ISP at this address since 2019, and before that we had them at another address for 4 years. I could have probably bought my own modem and router several times over.
Wow. Yeah, that’s a LOT of wasted money :(
It is, and connecting the new router I got, I realize that what I have from the ISP is actually pretty substandard. I can't wait until I can return it.
For real, dude. You can get a 2.5gbps home LAN setup these days for a few hundred dollars, and that’s going to be WAY better than the shit Comcast or whoever rents you. The only exception to that is if you’ve got fiber - I believe you’re locked into using their transceiver (because the tech is proprietary). But if you’re on traditional co-ax broadband, the world is your oyster.
When I try, it throws a popup that says "You must have at least one network."
Sounds like it might allow you to disable it after you plug your own router in. If not, customer service might be able to do it. Ask them to put it in modem only mode.
I bought a refurbished cable modem for less than $30 off of amazon that's working well for me. I'd just go that route instead of using their equipment. Even if it breaks in a year, that's savings over renting ISP equipment.
All the router modem combos I have used have basically disabled most of the features including wifi if it gets set in modem only mode
That is literally fucked. There are some scenario's where I can imagine an ISP wanting to force wireless on. a mesh network for their customers sounds like the most straightforward reason. if you cannot replace the router, faraday the shit out of it. put your own router behind the isp router and don't forget to change the MAC address of the router (isp will probably block any 3rd party router macs on the network. seen it before)
That shit would get thrown in a metal cage and treated as a radioactive DMZ network-wise if I was forced to use it
My ISP is the dumb pipe my internet comes from, it's bad enough that they inject bandwidth cap warnings into the raw HTML of webpages like some sort of adware virus, they can stay the fuck out of my local network
messing with html sounds very worrying to me. is that on https connections to any site they do not control? Do you have an isp application installed?
Only HTTP, they intercept any unencrypted page in flight and inject a giant banner at the top that won't go away until you acknowledge it, no local application required
This is 100% legal in the US, and in fact, some small regional ISPs actually made money injecting actual ads into webpages, literal spyware
that would immediately prompt me to use vpn for any connection. I'm sorry to hear that man.
This is the result of the death of isps as net-neutral carriers.
The worst part that ISP's do these days is have all their hardware broadcast "guest" networks that you can't disable. They market it as a bonus since any of their own customers using their own apps can connect to any ISP-provided guest network anywhere to save mobile data, but it's actually just a massive uncontrollable security hole.
Some ISPs will not let you put the modem into a true bridged mode. I would try to disable as much on it as you can. As long as the traffic can pass through from the modem to your router that’s the important part.
Yup.iterally only use the modem to convert the signal, then run your own setup off that Ethernet cable.
That's what I'm thinking. I looked up how to use bridge mode for my router, and it does look like I am able to access that setting, at least for now.
Yup.iterally only use the modem to convert the signal, then run your own setup off that Ethernet cable.
When I had Comcast, I had to call them and have them turn this stuff off for me, fwiw.
I've owned a TP-Link that frequently lost all my settings. I've owned two Netgears and they've been great. I've owned two Linksyses and they've been great. That's just my experience.
I couldn't even access the Netgear settings without creating a Netgear account, so I returned it. My friend who has a Netgear said this didn't used to be the case, but I could not bypass that requirement.
Yes, get your own router, don't use the app. If you're technically inclined, the app will only restrict what you can do with the equipment. And with ISP owned equipment, they have api access to your equipment.
I deleted the app as soon as I got a normal router put in place and my network set up the way I want. I'm not sure why I even thought the app would do what I wanted, but the agent deliberately deceived me.
Fvck it, run your own router on top of that. Make a another local network and just connect it to the ISP Router, then connect all your devices to the new local. Voila.
Also run a VPN on the new router if you daisy-chain them.
Fun thought. I'd try wrapping their wifi router in a faraday cage of chicken wire, test that the signal isn't going out with a nearby smartphone, then plug ethernet from their to my own wifi router.
Does chicken wire actually work for this?
I haven't tried it but if it chicken wire has enough metal in it, it should work, in principle. I don't get great reception in my chicken run wrapped in chicken wire, if that makes for a good sign.
Ah so similar to the metal screen that keeps microwaves from escaping a microwave oven.
I know people who raise chickens, so maybe I can hit then up for some wire
You could always do double NAT (put your own router behind theirs) as last resort. It's not that bad, I've done it a lot.
Out of curiosity, if your router is able to connect with their network, why do you then need to add their router back in front of yours?
In that case you totally don't. But many ISPs only allow their own routers/modems or require some very specific abilities from 3rd-party routers usually only found on more high end (expensive) models. So sometimes the last resort is double NATing (which is fine for most users).
If you can't disable theirs.
Do you need NAT if their network supports IPv6 and your whole home network is set up in IPv6?
Probably, unless they have a static delegation or do prefix delegation properly, which if they did they probably don't suck enough to require double NAT^ lol
^single NAT for IPv6, assuming they don't NAT it themselves
yeah, double-NAT tends to break a lot of multiplayer games though so I heavily try to avoid it.
That's surprising, considering CGNAT would break it as well and is meaningfully common.
Is the Unify Dream Machine a good option?
If you're on the techy side and want an all-in-one solution? Sure, if you plan on expanding within their ecosystem later. Unifi's biggest benefit is the ecosystem, being able to manage everything from one place is nice.
I worked on one clients unifi setup and loved it. Immediately got the usg 4 pro, 24 port switch and 3 pro waps. Highly recommend for a prosumer setup.support can be whack, but lots of YouTube and forums. Meraki too pricey for home setup but the support is top tier for critical business.
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Yeah I was thinking about the consumer one, which also has a WiFi AP integrated.
Yes.
I have the usg pro 4 with ap pros and love it.
It's good enough.
I'm running wired routers with their wifi systems. I have a lot of control over my network.
I can't speak to the all in one dream machine, though I'm sure it's similar in capability to my UDM pro, which has been fairly solid for me and only really has had trouble when I induced it myself. It's definitely much more complex and open than most home routers, and allows you to set every single thing you can think of, the drawback though is that it's not as automated as some home routers and you need to know what you are setting more in depth when you step off the auto modes. Overall I've been very happy with my unifi setup. I also use Protect and I'm looking to set up Access too soon(ish).
I have fiber here in my apartment.
There is an optical network terminal with an Ethernet port on it. The optical network terminal does not appear to do any routing, just conversion of the signal between the electrical and optical interfaces. An ordinary PC can be plugged directly into it, use DHCP to get its IP address, and that's it.
I was supplied a router by the ISP as well. It's spent the better part of the last decade gathering dust in a drawer.
lucky bastard, enjoying fiber optic internet with common sense hardware...
No kidding. I'm going to sorely miss this setup if I ever move out.
Buying your own modem probably isn't enough, they are still going to be able to configure the modem.
I would just place a firewall between them modem and your network, if you are worried about the ISP hacking into your network.
Of course they have to configure the modem- they have to set it up right to talk to their own hardware. Itd be impossible to use otherwise.
The point is to insulate your actual LAN settings and router from the ISP so they can't go fuck with it. This isn't even a security thing - the ISP can and already is sniffing every packet you send - it's just trying to maintain some semblance of usable control.
my ISP didn't gave me the captive portal password and I'm afraid to reset it now because they've manually entered the WAN IP 😩
Very true in most cases, however I'd like to add in my own, probably isolated, experience.
I switched over from a 4G to 5G home plan and I got a router alongside it and, gotta say, it's the best mobile network router I've put my hands on (mind you, it's only been 2), makes use of the network bands much better.
My previous one from the same company was completely shitty on the other hand, both Huawei branded, but the first was a portable unlike the new one, of course in the first case I had replaced it with a 3rd party one from TP-LinkBut all major ISP here (swiss) have an "advanced user" mode, where you can firewall and whatnot. Though the username is always default 'admin', why ever.
