‘Deluded’ Hamas made a ‘catastrophic miscalculation’, say Palestinian analysts
‘Deluded’ Hamas made a ‘catastrophic miscalculation’, say Palestinian analysts
Hamas is now aiming for some form of political suvival through talks with the PA
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Hamas and their supporters need to be burned out of Gaza.
Their supporters are 72% of Palestinians ^[[1]https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/]. That would be genocide. It's not that simple.
They are getting what they deserve then. October 7th was an atrocious terrorist attack. It was not an act of war, its victims were not legitimate targets of war. They were children, the elderly, and concert goers.
You think the ten year old who has been told his whole life that the highest purpose he can serve is to jihad against Israel deserves to be killed for it? What if he hasn't even done anything?
Maybe you think he deserves death for his "crime". I have a bit more empathy than that.
Adults giving material support is closer to what I meant. Sorry it's been a long day. But for the adult Palestinians that actively took part in Oct 7, yes absolutely. Also for those that continue to use civilians as human shields, or use hospitals, mosques and schools as weapon caches.
What's "material support"? Bread? Does giving bread to someone who hates Israel mean you deserve death?
What if the person encourages attacks on Israel? What if it's a mother feeding her Hamas son who joined Hamas because the IDF shot his brother's kneecap? Does that mother deserve death? What about the families of these other 42 palestinians?
I'm just curious how far this death by association should go.
Their supporters are 72% of Palestinians. That would be genocide. It’s not that simple.
Well it happend in the past with the Nazis, despite the large number of supporters for them the Allies attacked and as a german I must say it worked out pretty well for us.
We did not kill 72% of the Germans, or even 72% of the Nazis in WW2. I do not support Hamas, but I don’t support genocide either.
Thats his point. No need for genocide if other options are available. Many many Germans supported the Nazis and denazification after ww2 was a thing
I'm not sure there are realistic strategies for the region that would be similar. Who is going to take over administration of Gaza when Hamas is out? Israel is. Germans didn’t hate British people. They did not spend generations teaching their children that Americans were subhuman scum. Your average German was able to snap out of the delusion easily. You and I both know that isn’t a plausible reality in Gaza.
I’m not saying there is a need for genocide. But Hamas could agree to terms tomorrow and the war would end. Then it would start again. There can be no peace in that place. Not while both peoples live there. Maybe when Iran builds nukes? MAD is pretty high price to pay but it might sober everyone up a little. Hard pill to swallow.
We did kill a lot of them and a lot of them were supporters. By that time it was pretty much the whole country and the they stil decided to attack them.
I'm not saying that killing a lot of Hamas fighters and supporters is the solution, you also have to change things in Gaza drastically, like let them live and rule independently because this whole tyranny over them pushed the people into the arms of those degenerates of the Hamas. But having that much supporters should also not prevent us from fighting the Hamas.
The allies did specifically bomb civilians in WW2 though. And Nazis weren't usually using human shields.
No, they were using them as target practice like they did to my great grandfather. First they took him to concentration camp, then they took him and others to the forest to have some moving target practice. Thankfully he was able to run away and hide.
When it comes to human shields, the only independent verification back in 2014 (Amnesty link) is of Weapons (not rockets) hidden at a vacant school, situated btwn 2 UNRWA schools housing displaced people, by a Palestinian armed group.
The Guardian journalists had encountered a couple individuals in 2014 too.
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Amnesty on Hamas War Crimes 2023
Yet none of those come remotely close to making hospitals and schools bombing targets. Even if all the IDF claims were true, that does not exempt those hospitals and schools as protected under international law.
Additionally, let's look at how the IDF uses Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
We didn't fight Nazis in a dense urban environment.
This is just flat out, totally, and utterly wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin
https://taskandpurpose.com/history/a-look-at-urban-warfare-on-world-war-iis-western-front/
Sure, you can point to some urban warfare during WWII but for the most part it was maneuvering armies in the field. That's where the big casualties were at.
Take the L. You're wrong.
Nonsense. There is always high civilian loss in urban areas. The level of loss is the only question. Here, the numbers come from Hamas, who admit that they add their fighters to the numbers. How many fighters? They claim not to know. Israel says that they killed 13,000 Hamas, so it's the only number we have. So, of the around 30,000 deaths reported, 13,000 are actually Hamas. In a dense urban environment.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1756343262259093555?t=47zR4m1YM-cGX3iGlGL5Pg&s=19
Solid rebuttal with a crazy amount of supporting facts.
spicy comment of the day