TIL lemmy has a traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns community
TIL lemmy has a traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns community
# Rules ##### 1.) No bigotry of any kind, and don’t be a jerk either • Bigotry includes but is not limited to: ableism, casteism, homophobia, lookism, queerphobia, racism, sexism, transphobia, and xenophobia. Bigotry towards non-binary people is transphobia. Truscum rhetoric is also bigotry. You get...
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Truscum rhetoric is also bigotry.
This is always a red flag, the label "truscum" has just become a means to shut down uncomfortable conversations about what actually falls under the trans umbrella, it's used to demonize any trans person who defends the medical legitimacy of their condition and insists that it's not a social condition.
It's TERF propaganda to ostracize trans people from their own communities by weaponizing people looking to legitimize their own special interest that's not actually related to being trans.
I think the problem comes when it's framed as "you can only be trans if you have a diagnosis" as opposed to "you're trans whether you have a diagnosis or any kind of medical experience with it or not." One can say "it took a doctor diagnosing me with dysphoria before I could accept I was trans, but I understand that this is just my experience, and I know others have their own experience" and that's totally fine.
Sure, there's room for nuance regarding diagnosis and people shouldn't be gatekept or diagnosed online by others when they're exploring and trying to figure things out, but often the term "truscum" is used to punish and silence trans people who don't agree that anything and everything fits within gender identity simply because someone might want it to in order to feel validated.
It should be ok to tell people, for example, that dysphoria is central to the trans condition, and to point out that all of trans people's modern medical rights are based on that notion. But saying that will get you banned from those spaces without much discussion, despite it being a critically important truth that makes medical transition possible. That is kind of crazy to me.
If you pushback too hard on certain ideas that are questionable or downright damaging to trans people and their rights but are "widely accepted" in the space, it results in being "truscum".
It should be ok to discuss and clarify these topics without being labeled as some kind of a heretic. Truscum should not be the "I get to call you a bigot to shut you up" card.
It should be ok to tell people, for example, that dysphoria is central to the trans condition
I don't agree. It's ok to say "dysphoria is central to my trans experience, though I understand this isn't universal." That doesn't gatekeep anyone. In fact it's the opposite. But it's not ok to tell others that dysphoria or medical treatment is required to be trans.
Sure, in many locations, having a diagnosis is required before doctors will allow you to even begin HRT or consider having surgeries if you want them. But that's just a symptom of a broken medical system that enforces cisheteronormativity, and prevents self-ID and informed consent. It's not what actually defines what being trans is all about. It's just a hoop people are forced to jump through.
There's a difference between having honest and good-faith discussions about the role dysphoria, surgery and HRT play in the overall trans experience, and making broad definitive statements. That's what actually erases others' experiences.
Gender dysphoria is central to all trans experience though, even if it is experienced differently by different people, even if they don't get an official diagnosis.
If a person hasn't experienced dysphoria in any form, feels no discomfort with their bodily sex characteristics, that's simply being cis. It doesn't matter how they like to dress, what terms they use or invent, what their interests are or how they speak. All of that has nothing to do with gender identity, because gender identity is about how you relate to the sex characteristics of your body, nothing else.
The idea that a person can be socialized into being trans is directly contradictory to the idea that a trans person is born trans and that their gender identity is an unchangeable biological reality of who they are (which causes dysphoria when mismatched with their body).
The two ideas can't both be true, for the same reason you can't say being gay or straight is a social creation but also an unchangeable reality of that individual. If being trans was a social condition it could be undone through socialization (aka conversion therapy), which is a really damaging belief. If we still believed being trans was a socialization issue like the 1950s no one would be able to get medical care.
This is about the time that people (typically) stop the conversation and try to get you banned by calling you truscum and transphobic.
The idea that a person can be socialized into being trans is directly contradictory to the idea that a trans person is born trans and that their gender identity is an unchangeable biological reality of who they are (which causes dysphoria when mismatched with their body).
You are collapsing too many ideas into one here.
There are people who through some combination of nature and nurture find themselves wanting to be treated in a way which aligns much closer to how one gender gets treated in a particular society. They may choose to transition to get this treatment despite having no dysphoria about themselves or their body. Being upset about how someone treats you is not necessarily dysphoria. There are also individuals who don't experience their gender negatively but experience another gender more positively. They do not have dysphoria yet may choose to transition to maximize their happiness. Do not erase these individuals.
Arguing that dysphoria is central to the trans experience is a trans medicalist (truscum) viewpoint and exclusionary rhetoric isn't nice and therefore isn't allowed around here.
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No one is erasing anyone
You're literally erasing me, lol. I'm agender and trans. I did not start transitioning because of gender dysphoria. I don't even experience gender dysphoria. If you don't think I have the right experience to identify as trans, that's on you my friend, but I'm not going to change my labels because you don't think that I exist. I'm sorry if you feel that my existence jeopardizes your existence or invalidates it in any way, because there are many compatible world views in which it does not.
Ultimately it doesn't matter either way - I only intervened here because you got reported for not being nice. So please, stop it.
I'm literally in the process of losing my right to life saving medical care in my country because of that philosophy. Because people think being trans is just a made up social thing. What is your skin in the game that entitles you to not only to represent me but to force me into silence? To tell people that it's just made up after trans people have fought for decades and decades to get the most basic recognition and medical care? How is that nice?
And this is the core of the problem, I can't be silent on this because allowing people to perpetuate the belief that being trans is a made up social construct is actually effecting trans people in a real material way.
Do whatever you want with that. I won't be back either way.
I'm literally in the process of losing my right to life saving medical care in my country because of that philosophy. Because people think being trans is just a made up social thing.
Are you sure it's because of that particular philosophy, and not of some people's philosophy stemming from some "sacred" book, or a desire to control the sexuality of others?
At no point am I arguing that it is a made up social construct. I'm just letting you know about my existence. If my existence threatens you so much that you must throw me into a box that is not you, then go ahead and do so. I'm not out here shouting at the world about how people like me exist, I'm merely replying to your attempt to erase me. There are compatible world views which don't erase me - which many other people have pointed out here.
I'm sorry that your country is taking away your right to life saving medical care. The same thing is happening in my country. I'd rather spend my time and energy on preserving access to medical care for everyone than fighting with folks online. Best of luck, I hope things improve for you. 💜
Otherwise you could claim a crossdresser were trans or people who claimed they were “attack helicopters” would have to be accepted as trans because there would literally be no argument you could make against it.
this just sounds like a skill issue on your part, i'm sorry--this is not an issue if you have a postmodernist understanding of gender, which most trans people (myself included) subscribe to.
at the end of the day when you drill down? there really is not a material difference between the "real" and "fake" genders--gender is entirely socially constructed, and the designations of "male" and "female" that most people fall into are as arbitrary as any xenogender (real or frivolously created by right-wingers). you only "lose" by entertaining frivolous designations if your understanding of gender is already so narrow that you can't conceptually accommodate anything beyond a handful of stock gender identities to begin with.
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The reason xenogenders and transgender genders are not the same is because one is based on our dimorphic sexual physicality, and the other is based on metaphysical invention.
So you're not only transmedicalist, but somehow also a gender essentialist?
This is gatekeeping via transmedicalist talking points.
Dysphoria is not central to the trans experience. It's central to some trans experiences.
Even if your belief that dysphoria has biological/medical routes were true, that still doesn't mean that it's the only way to be trans.
Whatever else it is, gender is also a social construct, and our relationships with social constructs shape who we are in very real ways.
And hell to take your gatekeeping ever further, even if you're right, and some trans folk can "stop being trans" as a result of their social environment or whatever, they're still trans until they're not.
This is about the time that people (typically) stop the conversation and try to get you banned by calling you truscum and transphobic.
Yep, for good reason
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It’s not gatekeeping
Yes, it is. You are saying that anyone without a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria isn't trans. You do not get to make that kind of statement.
You are the one erasing others' experiences
You are the one arguing against trans people’s legitimacy
No one here is saying being trans isn't real. But *you are when you say that it's only valid if you have dysphoria.
You also have to think this through: if you believe that you can only really be trans if you have a medical diagnosis, then you have created vast swathes of gatekeepers for being trans: doctors, insurance companies, politicians, governments at every level. In our bigoted, cisheteronormative society, if we say you can only be trans with a diagnosis, and that society doesn't want trans people to exist, then they can just stop diagnosing people. Doctors can refuse, and decide instead that you're depressed, bipolar, BPD, etc. instead, and that anyone who thinks they're trans is just "mentally ill." Governments can pass laws preventing state run insurances (Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare, etc.) from paying for anything related to dysphoria. They can also pass laws saying private insurances either don't have to cover it, or that they can't. I know for a fact this is already happening because I live in Florida. I'm watching this scenario happen right in front of me. You're taking away the ability for a person to know their own mind and their own body, and their right and ability to understand their own identity, and handing that judgement over to people with a vested interest in denying it.
And I can see why you'd think this would be a path to walk: if we say "a medical diagnosis means we're objectively, scientifically trans, then the bigots can't deny it", but that's not how things work. That's just pandering to the oppressors. You will never appease them.
No one is saying that you can just call anyone trans you want, like crossdressers, drag queens, or "attack helicopters" (I honestly can't believe you even threw that one around). Only the bigots do that.
No one is saying your experience isn't valid. It's exactly the opposite. If you feel dysphoria is central to your experience, that's fine! You're just as trans as the next trans person, just as valid. But that's your experience. You don't get to generalize your experience and then decide that's the yardstick by which everyone else must be measured.
some trans folk can “stop being trans” as a result of their social environment or whatever
This is what evangelicals and terfs claim. But it’s not true. It’s why you cannot convert a trans person, or a gay person from what they are. It’s why the medical community has acknowledged that the best treatment is affirming care. If you believe being trans is a social issue you’re putting trans people into a position to lose their access to medical care.
You took this quote completely out of context and inverted the intended meaning to suit your argument. The statement Ada made was
And hell to take your gatekeeping ever further, even if you’re right, and some trans folk can “stop being trans” as a result of their social environment or whatever, they’re still trans until they’re not.
Gonna have to disagree here. The social aspect of it all is just as important of the medical aspect. While there are trans issues that are mostly medical in nature, there are equally trans issues that are more social in nature.
I'm not sure what contexts you've seen truscum being used in, but from what I know it's a term used for people who insist on a medical diagnosis in order to be trans. The problem with this, imo, is twofold. There's a long history of medical gatekeeping that enforced cisheteronormativity in order to get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, leaving out all other forms of self-identity (among a whole host of philosophical issues). And the second is just the lack of understanding and research of the broader medical community. Treatment guidelines are all over the place, often misguided, and usually inadequate to achieve the goals of the patient.
Truscum rhetoric often reinforces cisheteronormativity which is mostly antithetical to what being trans is about in the first place. That's not to say that the trans community doesn't struggle with medical diagnoses or that that's not important, but to use a diagnosis as the benchmark of what being trans is, is usually needlessly exclusionary.