Protestation

The amount of Americans who were trained to misunderstand and hate socialism based on reaganomics but yet want to be Russian is heavily astounding. Americans are the weirdest bullies of the world.
- What does modern Russia have to do with anything?

Stop couping yourself.
Stop couping yourself.
Stop couping yourself.

We do our best to ignore the countries that do have good social policy, or manufacture reasons that social policy doesn't work while ignoring the exact same problems mirrored in our capitalist system exacerbated by disparity.
- The US definitely doesn't ignore countries like the PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, etc that are more rapidly and equitably developing than their peers, it wages active economic warfare if these countries don't play ball. The US Empire needs subjects, after all, so if countries don't bend the knee the US either saber rattles or sanctions them to oblivion.

Anyone who says they don't like socialism I just tell to stop using public roads moving forward.
- Publicly funded infrastructure and utilities within a Capitalist system isn't an example of Socialism. Socialism is an organization of society where public ownership is principle, ie at least over the large firms and key industries. The US Army is not "socialist," it's an arm of the state within a Capitalist system. Same with roads.
  I get what you're trying to say, but I think this line of thinking backfires more often than it helps. Anti-socialists can easily point out that it's the broader system that needs to be viewed, not the discrete element.
  
  Purely pedantic. The terms socialism and socialist are perfectly legitimate to describe the outlook or philosophy behind running aspects of society as "an arm of the state" vs having private interests run them for profit.
- socialism is when the government pays for things, and the more things it pays for, the more socialister it gets
  
  socialism is where the government socialisms for things, the more they socialism for, the more socialismier it is.
  Cunk on socialism
  
  Then a dictatorship spending 80% of GDP to prepare for war would be a socialist country.
  Even if all the money is spend on social issues, only utopian socialism equals this. It's what got Karl Marx so fussy about because he knew the capitalists/monarchs/oligarchs will never allow it to happen for as long as they live. So a next social revolution à la the French revolution he predicted.
  Since Marx, socialism is when the means of production is in the hands of the workers and one's income is comparable to one's contribution.
  And since Marx didn't have a good idea as to how a socialist government would function as his version did not get off the ground, we now have standard vanguard (SU) and capilliary vanguard (PRC '78) democracies as examples of socialist societies.
  
  Why do you need to redefine a world that ot's creator defined?
- My younger brother moved from the bay area to a suburb of Nashville. He hates it because (per him, I haven't verified this) there are no public parks or trails that he can run or bike at within like 40 miles of his place. Plenty of private parks, but nothing public. At least it seems that way to him since every city he's lived in California had/has at least 15 miles of bike trail and usable public parks in every neighborhood.
- Technically lemmy and the fediverse implement socialiam principles
  
  Open source is inherently socialist

accurate.

Cuba being so based, that it did not work.
- Given the fact that the strongest economic power in the world has been fucking with them for decades, and they still manage to keep up on things like life expectancy and education (at times even surpassing the US on the life expectancy), I'd say they're doing pretty well. And looking at neighboring countries with similar histories that aren't getting fucked by the US, but chose capitalism (or had it chosen for them in case of countries like Chile), I'd say Cuba's a pretty good argument in favor of socialism.
- Hasn't Cuba been crippled by US sanctions and libel for decades?
  
  Yeah, but they've had a lot of success despite that.
  
  Sadly yes, but it is still way ahead of most other (in some cases even imperial core) countries in certain metrics.
  
  Irrelevant, if they didn't want to be embargoed so hard maybe they should have done a capitalism.

China: "The USA put the Uighurs in Sweat Shops."

@protestation
Trying to create socialism in a poor country that doesn't have a fully developed capitalist economy doesn't work.
socialism #communism #capitalism #anarchism #anarchy #marxism #anticapitalism #revolution #classwar #politics
- One can absolutely create a society where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy without being a fully developed Capitalist country. "Full-development" itself is a misnomer, anyways, as analysis of Monopoly Capitalism has shown, Imperialist countries actually become less industrially developed, and would need to develop more, meaning over-development of Capitalism actually becomes a hinderance.
  Moreover, we have seen Socialism works in the real world. Countries like the PRC are regularly making massive improvements while western countries sink and decay as Imperialism dies. Markets can be a useful tool, sure, but markets can exist in the context of an economy driven by public ownership, meaning Capital isn't a major risk of overthrowing the system. Again, lessons from China.
- @RadicalEgoCom @protestation I think I'm about done. Dude just ignores my arguments and continues spouting the inane racist nonsense that's getting to me more than it ought to. I guess it just feels like a betrayal.
  They all have fully developed capitalist economies. A hell of a lot more developed than Germany was in Marx's time. Get that through your head, and call me back.
  
  They made similar errors 3 months ago over here on the Lemmy space.
  
  Who's they? I'm referring to countries like Russia in 1917 that were semi-feudal and didn't have a developed capitalist economy, as well as all the other countries in the last century that had revolutions prematurely in similar manners.
  @ferret @protestation
- @RadicalEgoCom @protestation trying to create it in a rich country with a well established oligarchy doesn't work so well either
  
  A developed capitalist country with a well established oligarchy would also have a very large proletariat that, after becoming class conscious and organized, could easily overthrow capitalism in a democratic and worker-led way, like Marx intended.
  @zombiewarrior @protestation

I know it's a meme, but if it doesn't work because of the USA, then that is one of the reasons it doesn't work.
Edit: and you being angry at me just shows your inability to imagine a way forward. "If the USA hadn't stopped us then it would have worked!" Is as smart as saying pigs could fly only if they had wings.
Edit2: I can't imagine why people would think communists are hateful beings.
- "The world police is always right, it's their fault for being commies"
- Good thing the US empire is dying then.
  And without any other country "liberating" it either. That's just how well fascism works.
  
  The USA have for sure went full crazy/wannabe-fascists, but I doubt they are "dying" just yet.
- nothing works if someone shoots you as soon as you try it.
  If someone shoots you as soon as you try to drive your car, would you say “cars don’t work” or “fuck that guy shooting at me”?
  
  If you drive through a shooting range, would you continue do it and blame it on the shooters? Again and again too.
- The USA had better fossil fuels and by better fossil fuels I mean more coal.
  The Soviet Union fell because it mostly had to rely on oil and had no solution against the US petrodollar scheme.. China is already doing better with just half as much coal.
  Even cultist theocracies could win against communism with enough energy/electricity sources packed in a small area that can't be easily transported.
  This coal advantage is quickly disappearing as solar power and to a lesser extend, wind power, is making inroads. By 2030, coal will be a curse like oil as it's easier to transport than solar and wind, which aren't transportable at all.
  
  You say it like the fall of the USSR regime was a bad thing.
- @protestation @Valmond Bet you think black people must be inferior because they were enslaved by Europeans, too.
  
  @ferret @protestation @Valmond
  I think this is a fair criticism to make. The failures of past socialist states show that proletarian revolutions in undeveloped poor countries have next to no chance of being successful because of constant aggression from more powerful capitalist states like the US. From this, it's reasonable to conclude that proletarian revolutions in more powerful and developed capitalist countries (like Marx intended) are more optimal.
  
  I made a little edit just for you.