Muslims: please dont depict Prophet Muhammad, its offensive, thank you
Europeans:
here is the link, its locked by the way beware of the quasi-fascists that are the western europeans
edit: its really easy to attract the islamophobes in this chat
i'm not fine with this. I'm a former Muslim living in a Muslim country, i'm absolutely not okay with drawing a cartoon being a death flag. And i'm not fine with leftists allowing the right to take over this "conversation" like this. I'm not okay with normalizing the respect of stupid religious rules by force over non-muslims.
I get you sympathize with French Muslims because in that specific context it's punching down but people in Muslim countries have been assaulted, jailed or killed for less. This is not about drawing Mohamed per se, Shia Muslims do it and have done it for 1400 years, it's about criticizing him . showing him in an unflattering light.
That's what they're angry about. You literally can't talk leftism here without tip-toeing around Mohamed's legacy. Feminism? property rights? religious and sexual minorities? Once they invoke the religion card you have 70% of people against you.
the better approach in my view is that leftists talk about this, instead of unfairly bashing outraged people and pushing them into the right wing. You can both understand extremism is born out of material conditions, that Muslims are currently france's scapegoat for it's economic troube and believe religious criticism is a right.
I'm gonna start by saying that I have never drawn Mohammed, and never have any intention of doing so, and things like the OP are pointlessly upsetting people for no reason.
I will also mention that I was raised in a non-religious household where the only rule that was ever really give to me was "anything is okay to do as long is it doesn't hurt others".
That said, I also do not like the idea of letting a religion impose its will on non-believers simply because it's "marginalised" is kind of scary and would not lead us down a good road.
I get where it's coming from, and the government itself should certainly not be partaking in the antagonism, but come on. You should not be fucking killed for doing anything like this and some people here seem to take a strange amount of glee from this event.
Yeah my only issue with this whole saga is the French government's emotionally manipulative spin to this. A government should never take part in antagonising a minority at the best of times, let alone use it as a lightning rod for social and economic dysfunction. I guess a smart politician never lets a good crisis go to waste.
People who are used to making fun of religion aren't wrong to feel outrage that someone got killed gruesomely over it. We're not Muslim, we shouldn't have to observe Islamic rules.
I just need to reiterate that any leftist who takes it seriously would be delusional to think they won't have to face Mohamed's legacy at some point. Which necessitates criticising him, and people will be angry and the Muslim right wing fascists bank on it. But it has to happen regardless.
What i find amusing and illustrative in this argument is replacing "draw Muhammad" with "saying the n-word" and it being the same fucking argument.
ok look i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive to your religion,
drawing a picture of some guysaying the n-word is not immoral and anyone who suggests that it is can eat my entire ass
Basically we've got a lot of americans on this site who rightfully feel guilt at kicking disadvantaged people in their own country, but fuck off about caring about the disadvantaged people in other white imperialist countries, they can suck my dick if they don't like it.
How the hell is satirising a highly questionable religious figure the same as the n-word now? We fans of religious authority now?
If you wish to undermine religious authority that means reducing the number of religious adherents.
These divisive tactics with insults, misrepresentations, and minority oppression are not effective towards those ends.
Islamophobia is playing into our enemies hands; they rule via divide and conquer.
As leftists what we should aim for is mutual understanding and cooperation.
We want religious (and non-religious) people to become more accepting, reasonable, and less reactionary.
Insults only put people into a defensive position. And this only empowers religious authorities.
When people publicly insult Mohamed, where do Muslims turn to for support and solidarity?
You have to be more pragmatic about this. There is no slippery slope when your position is rooted in utilitarian concerns.
If freedom of expression were meaningfully at risk then we could simply pivot our tactics.
Those who insult Islam have done nothing wrong; but those insulting Islam to hurt and marginalize Muslims within society are no better than any other bigot.
Terrorist attacks in response to such expression is already systematically opposed, so what more do you want?
Mosques and Muslim communities are already under surveillance throughout Europe.
Freedom of expression does not mean we have to celebrate every time somebody says something that offends others.
If anything, freedom expression used in this way and on such a scale, causing violence and social unrest, is what puts freedom of expression seriously at risk.
If I thought that via Mohamed cartoons within three years we would have millions more ex-Muslims; then absolutely publish away.
But this same shit has been going on for over a decade and I don't think it's working.
ok look i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive to your religion, drawing a picture of some guy is not immoral and anyone who suggests that it is can eat my entire ass
i dont care if you're religious, but that apathy ends the second you start asking me to follow your dumb fucking religion's dumb fucking rules. fuck off
i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive
eat my entire ass
fuck off
Civility at the expense of accomplishing something real is bullshit, but man, you're not going to get very far with very many people if you're just an outright asshole.
Do you understand how traumatic it is to grow up in an environment ruled, socially and legally, by religion? It's fucking horrifying. And then to see people who are supposed to be supporting you calling you racist, a chud, an asshole, etc for daring to suggest that religion shouldn't control the life of a non-religious person? That's terrifying too. I'm lashing out because this is truly a terrible, disgusting thing that people here are thoughtlessly supporting.
Lmao bro is this how you treat trans comrades as well? it's super easy to respect a muslim's desire to not depict the prophet because it's disrespectful, much like it's easy to use someone's preferred pronouns. imagine respecting people lmao
You sound like one of those nerds who say the n word is "just a word"
But fuck Christianity, Scientology, and sometimes Judaism, right? But bend the knee for one of the two most dominant theologies because Brown people. (Oh yeah, this is when we conveniently call Latinos white for their Catholic influence.) You really think Islam's ascendance pooped out pink rainbows and gold doubloons on the other side?
If your analysis of religion ends at ‘religion bad’, you need to read more about Christian anarchism, Catholic Workers, and liberation theology, especially its role in Latin America.
Wahhabism is obviously a garbage tier ideology, but if your takeaway from that is to try to offend everyone from the broader religion, you’ve taken a wrong turn somewhere, at both a moral and a strategic level.
...Anyone who defends China's treatment of Uighers but bitches about cartoons is a worthless lib.
China is taking direct and effective anti-terrorism operations that focus on education; France is defending the rights of bigots to be bigots. The Xinjiang Schooling Programs have a great likelihood to completely or almost completely eliminate terrorism in Xinjiang after only a few years; to portray both as violent acts against Muslims ignores the fact that France seeks only to exclude, alienate, and offend while China seeks to educate and integrate - which is why almost every single Muslim country on earth, even erstwhile U.S. allies like Saudi Arabia - are backing the Chinese and opposing the French.