Useful idiot
Conservatives joke that progressives just blow with the wind from one controversy to the next. But I can't help but notice the anti-Biden "left" shifted hard from Genocide Joe to Bad debate Performance without skipping a beat or looking back.
Almost like the people stoking these fires don't really care about left issues at all.
russian troll farms be out here like
“no we’re innocent socialists!” “democrats aren’t progressive enough and therefore must be defeated” “you can’t accuse me of parroting russian disinformation talking points just because I’m using the same words and arguments”
I love how anyone who disagrees with you is a Russian troll. You go around insulting people and then try to claim the high ground. Grow up.
Not everyone, just the people who are spreading lines known to originate from Russian trolls.
I love how you try to victimize yourself by twisting what others say to turn it into an all-encompassing blanket statement that you can then use as an excuse to permit yourself to use blanket statements in your own accusations.
Without ever even acknowledging the hypocrisy.
Someone feeling seen?
They're only talking about things Russian troll farms do, not pointing at anyone in particular. Feels like this might be a self report
Accelerationism is a position that is literally only possible to hold from a position of privilege.
I'm sure crashing through the decline into fascism looks like a great idea when you know you're high enough on the kill list to avoid the actual consequences of fascism happening.
The white left never saw us as allies, only as fodder.
I’m not sure of the term for this, but I’ll call it “billionaire blindness”. Not blindness to billionaires but a blindness that affects billionaires. And it works like this: because they overestimate their own abilities – their ego cannot handle the large part that luck played in their success – they correspondingly underestimate the abilities of their lackeys.
In this particular context, they vastly underestimate their political pawns. They fail to realize that once Trump and Taylor-Green and cohorts gain dictatorial powers, then those former lackeys will become the masters. To quote Jello Biafra, “In the real fourth reich you’ll be the first to go.” I don’t know what we’ll call it tho. “Night of Long Knives” is too poetic.
Night of the faces getting eaten
“The white left” … (?)
White self proclaimed socialists and leftists who will theory their way all around why it's everyone else's job to praxis in even the bare minimum ways, and who see queer folks and PoC effectively as pawns to throw into the meat grinder of fascism until it eventually chews its teeth out.
See also, when the french communists outed immigrant resistance leaders to the retreating Nazis to take all the credit with the dead unable to correct the record for themselves.
"Progressives" with enough privilege that they think that if it comes down to it, they can always bend the knee to avoid the wall.
These people tend to be rabidly accelerationist, cause it's not their lives and livelihoods on the line.
This line of thinking allows you to be an ideological purist and denounce any incrementalism or harm reduction as antithetical to the cause, stirring up infighting.
It also happens to be an excellent strategy outlined in the CIA's saboteur handbook. (Literally, Google it, download the PDF from CIA.gov)
Accelerationism is a position that is literally only possible to hold from a position of privilege.
And boy do they get butthurt when you tell them that they're privileged.
I got one person really indignant with me when I called them privileged because they were pushing accelerationist bullshit about Palestinians being genocides because they didn't have to deal with the results of their rhetoric.
I've seen the same in someone I know personally. He's a pacifist, and being against funding Ukraine is at least consistent with that, if completely shortsighted and demonstrating how pacifism is an end goal, not praxis that we can do right now. He's also smart enough to realize what a losing argument that is and focuses on Palestine instead.
Literally? As in figuratively? Or are you one of those "a vote for anyone other than Biden is literally a vote for Trump" people?
Almost like the people stoking these fires don't really care about left issues at all.
It’s pretty easy to prove that many of them don’t.
I think it's funny that people think you can just change nominees at this point and still have a chance at winning the contest.
Would you mind elaborating on this? Polls don't favor Biden right now and obviously his debate performance was really REALLY bad. I mean, if he's the nominee, you gotta vote for him, but I'm curious why you think it's so crazy that a person would feel like another Democratic nominee has a better shot. Especially considering how dissatisfied almost everyone in the country is regarding the two choices we have before us, and how often the explanation of that dissatisfaction ends up being because of age.
I think it's a pretty reasonable take to want someone other than Biden to run, considering those things I mentioned. Even if you personally think another candidate besides Biden kills the chances of us beating Trump, why do you think it's so absurd of a position to want someone to take Bidens place?
It seems right now your position, that Biden is the only chance we have against Trump, is the one that is kinda illogical, but I'm curious what your take on that is because there's a chance I'm not accounting for something big, like the logistics of getting a replacement candidate in there and publicized.
It seems right now your position, that Biden is the only chance we have against Trump, is the one that is kinda illogical
Mmmmpretty sure that is the case. All the “replacement” talk is not something they’ve asked for input on, although there is a lot of it available should they ask. As it stands today, right now, Biden is the only chance we have against trump
Because Biden is currently doing a good job as president and the poll you linked show Trump and Biden polling within 1.5% of each other.
Why would you decide to try something never done before and switch up nominees four month before the election?
That's the position that seems illogical and almost wanting Trump to win.
I consider anyone pushing anyone over Biden as part of the Trump campaign. This is a two party system. Creating indecisiveness like this is a very viable and practical subversion tactic and with Trump's Kremlin backers as the Russian candidate as Putin's puppet, anyone that fails to recognise this ploy is being foolish and falling for their nonsense. The Platonic sophism tactic is hard for the simple minded to see through. Unplug from the news cycle and think for yourself outside of the sophist spin doctor nonsense. Ask your own questions and seek out those answers without distraction and exercise skepticism about all sources. If your general media leads your thoughts, you have no real thoughts of your own.
A list crypto-Trumpists:
You're underplaying the severity of his failure. All of these publications understand what you're saying. Every single one of them know that creating uncertainty now is risky, but in their calculations, it's worth it. I, ultimately, think they are wrong, but calling them part of the Trump campaign just has to be something only someone trying to win internet points would say.
I'll end by quoting Steve Bannon Pod Save America co-host Jon Favreau, "Anyone who says this is easy or that we shouldn't have this debate is not being honest."
100% on point. The pivot from “Genocide Joe” to “Anyone/Anything Else Now That Names Are Already On Ballots” is very telling. Also on this list are all the “leftists” pointing fingers at other “leftists” instead of the fascists and centrists.
Nancy fucking pelosi is questioning his candidacy, is she a paid Russian troll? This is high stakes situation that we need to discuss and calling anyone who disagrees with you a Russian troll or crypto trump supporter is counter-productive and serves only to divide two groups who both want to stop fascism. To do that both sides need to recognize the validity of each other's arguments and move from there not dismiss them as foolish.
It would only work in some kind of magical scenario.
Magic 1) Biden agrees to ... revoke his renomination or whatever.
Magic 2) The Dems can produce an actually good candidate.
Its maybe possible that Biden would step down, as in 1% chance, but they'd just run with Kamala, who would lose.
Why would that not be the case? People despise both candidates, a new candidate free of all Biden's bullshit would be nothing but good.
At this point I'm convinced people who reject the idea of Biden stepping down want a Democratic loss in November. There's no one actually this committed to Joe Biden.
I think there's a shot of it only because Trump is genuinely hated enough at this point that "unnamed democratic candidate" probably could beat him at this point.
I've done my fair share of shutting down bullshit being spread about Biden, but he definitely got into this game way later than he should have. His golden opportunity was when he skipped 2016 to grieve, I don't begrudge his reasons but the results speak for themselves.
If Trump wins then all these "Genocide Joe" people are going to learn the real meaning of that term, that's for sure.
Are you suggesting that half a million people being intentionally starved somehow doesn’t constitute a genocide?
Now, remember kids: if an unpopular Democratic presidential candidate doesn't win an election, who do we blame? That's right: literally everyone to the left of us. That's how you make progress in a country, after all: Demonizing the left in the same way conservatives do. And why do we do that? That's right, it's because we're secretly conservative, too. We just tolerate gay people more, but don't want actual social or economic progress. Repeat after me: "unfavorable political outcomes are everyone else's fault but mine!"
TIL that CNN and the NYT are the "online left".
Oh, is it an election year already?
Must be... all the radlibs are starting to get all hysterical about the "accelerationists" (supposedly) hiding under their beds again.
I'm convinced they're just astroturfers. One of the many voter suppression tactics of the right.
So, voting for the lesser of two evils doesn't work. We've done that for 50 years, and all it's achieved is a political duopoly that's so far to the right that Democrats are now where Republicans were. How does your political strategy of voting for right-wingers change that?
Is all you have to offer "slow the slide into fascism marginally until the general public acclimates to fascism"? Because that's what the lesser of two evils gets us.
You just said a lot of things that are wrong in a very short amount of time, try to fact check yourself instead of spreading FUD and misinformation.
This is the only thing I'm going to correct, you can fix yourself on the rest:
So voting for the lesser of two evils doesn't work. We've done that for the past 50 years...
No we haven't. We vote for the lesser of two evils every other election or so, then get butt hurt and stop voting because Clinton's emails, or because Gore is boring, or some other dumbass reason like that.
Oh no, you don't understand, if you're not for Biden, you're obviously a pro-Trump shill. There's no room left for nuance.
It's why political discourse is all but dead. You see this same braindead take all over the place. Dems constantly saying how braindead Reps are, but then constantly throwing out bad faith arguments and strawmen. But if you point out the flaws, you're just a shill who can be ignored.
We're doomed.
Accelerationists would be encouraging people to plow ahead with Biden so trump wins...
Not trying to maximize chances to beat trump while there's still time before the candidate is named.
trump is a huge threat to American democracy, and I dont see any other reason why so many people insist on a sub optimum candidate except they don't care if trump wins.
It might be different if Biden didn't have a 37% approval rating or a 56% disapproval rating.
But people just don't like Biden, for various reasons he's just not popular with voters. That's why people bring up multiple reasons why Biden isn't a good candidate, there's just a lot of them. And added together they might let trump win like he did in 2016
Aren’t you making the same mistake you criticize here?
This issue is contentious because we’re all scared of Trump and we all know he has a real chance of winning. And the reality is we genuinely don’t know for sure which strategy can defeat him. People who don’t like Biden respond to this fear by calling for Biden to step down, because they genuinely think someone else would have a better shot. People who like Biden are doubling down because they’re afraid of a contentious replacement process or an untested candidate falling flat and they genuinely think Biden is the best option in this context.
But I don’t think there’s any reason to believe any of this stems from a place other than genuine concern for American democracy. Assuming ill intent just creates pointless anger among the left coalition and doesn’t get us any closer to actually defeating Trump.
People who like Biden are doubling down because they’re afraid of a contentious replacement process or an untested candidate falling flat and they genuinely think Biden is the best option in this context.
I don't particularly care for Biden. He's better than I expected, but certainly not ideal. He's still pretty clearly the best option this election. Certainly not the best choice to run the country, but once you account for odds of success, there's really not a viable alternative
Yeah, yeah, we've heard you regurgitate the same anti biden rhetoric for the last few months.
Because the seasons Biden is a bad candidate now are the same reasons he was a bad candidate a few months ago.
Genuine question. Why doesn't Biden step down and let another Democrat run? Is there literally no other Democrat that could do better than Biden?
If Biden steps aside, he won't be president...
He's not willing to do that to beat trump.
Which is one of the reasons people don't like Biden. He's all talk, but won't actually do what he can to fight fascism.
Accelerationists would be encouraging people to plow ahead with Biden so trump wins…
Not trying to maximize chances to beat trump while there’s still time before the candidate is named.
I think this kind of highlights why the term "accelerationist" is a political fabrication, not an actual movement. No one I've met self-applies that label or wants fascism. I'd guess it's because that term was created as short-hand pejorative to suppress or dismiss those who are trying to create real pressure or who simply can't vote for someone so unapologetically genocidal.
I will not be voting for Biden ever again, but I will vote for nearly anyone else who might replace him because that would be enough of an indicator that Democrats can actually listen when pressed. They need to prove that if they want to win over voters who've been disillusioned by Biden's genocide support.
I think you kind of articulated something that was puzzling me about how uncompromising some people are being about the possibility of Biden stepping aside and how they refuse to even entertain what a boon that would be to democratic chances in November -- it's one thing to say people should vote Biden because you believe he's the only choice, it's an entirely different and more suspicious thing to try and pre-empt the possibility of someone else with less baggage replacing him.
There's signs of actual momentum in the party after the debate to try and find a way to convince Biden to step down (maybe by flattering his ego with his accomplishments or something and making him feel like he'll have a legacy besides that of a mass murderer). I don't see why anyone would dismiss that opportunity, given what we all know about Biden's rock bottom approval.
Funny, you’re now the second post to say the exact same thing. Almost like some right wing Astro turf campaign to get people to vote for right wingers like Biden.
Nothing has changed on our end and we still rightfully blame him for enabling genocide in Palestine.
Useful idiots
Liberals joke that leftists just blow with the wind from one controversy to the next. But I can't help but notice the pro-Biden "left" shifted hard from “there is no genocide in Gaza” to “genocide is an acceptable side effect of democracy” without skipping a beat or looking back or acknowledging the complicity of the Democratic Party that allowed fascists to rise to power.
Almost like the petit bourgeois liberals stoking these fires don't really care about left issues at all.
Liberals joke
Do THEY? Them dang ol’ libruls tell you whut. That git j-just like them how they do the liberalism, like yis “Gorgh burr imma librl, gimme teh jenosides man” sure nuff like ‘at boy uh huh.
But I can’t help but notice the anti-Biden “left” shifted hard from Genocide Joe to Bad debate Performance without skipping a beat or looking back.
How are people using this like it's some kind of own? A person can be bad for two reasons lol, he's still Genocide Joe and he's also senile.
Also accellerationism is dumb.
I don't want trump, I've said before that I think that his complicity in Gaza isn't only abhorrent but will lose him the election. Not exactly a stretch to then say "Oh and it turns out he is sunsetting too?" It sure seems like somebody else would be a better call to again not have trump. Give me Whitmer, Warren, Buttigieg, Duckworth, Ocasio-Cortez, Warnock, or Abrams and I'll be happy.
But it’s just not that simple. Israel is inextricable from a huge area of US power in the region - for better or the obvious worse that’s the case. We’ve been given what we’ve been given. If you think we should shut down all ties and delete the existing structure, say that. The ramifications may not be wonderful, particularly if one is unfamiliar with what those ramifications are.
And. AGAIN. As we know Trump has suggested Israel nuke them, he’s 100% on board for complete displacement, and I’ll bet large dollars he’ll collect real estate in the ensuing debacle. Biden is THE option. Trump or Biden. Certain death or a good government.
Every other conversation at this time is secondary at best, or in many cases deliberately inflammatory at worst.
It could be as simple as Biden releasing a new report to update the one where they said "gee it looks, acts, and talks like a genocide, but we are still going to give Israel plausible deniability so we can keep sending them bombs" and firmly conclude its a genocide thus legally requiring the US to stop supplying arms.
Like I said in my first comment, twice even, I don't want trump. So I don't give a shit what his policy would be. I know it would be horrific, that's not even a question. I think replacing Biden is more likely to save us from Trump, so trying to convince me Biden is better than Trump about foreign policy fully doesn't matter.
You're saying Biden is the option, but clearly myself and a significant portion of other voters in swing states would like another candidate more. Biden's performance was awful, something that appears to be particularly relevant to swing state voters: https://puck.news/biden-plunges-in-swing-states-in-leaked-post-debate-poll/
I think nominating a feeble old man in his twilight years is going to be our doom if we let it happen. There should have been a primary, Biden is unfit and his staff know it. You can plug your ears and march into fascism saying Biden is the only choice, but passing the nomination to someone who is still all there might actually turn things around.
Its funny because burguerlanders think genocide joe is a left option. I dont know how long till you call genojoe a marxist
Leftists: you're running a corpse that's committing a genocide that tons of tons of younger voters are actually protesting against. Also no Democrats only when elections when voter turnout is high. We should run a more likable candidate so we don't lose to the fascist?
Liberals(the scratch a liberal a fascist bleeds kind): That's accelerationism! you want Trump to win. This isn't like 2016 all over again but also Running Hillary was the right decision. People just voted wrong. 🤡
If Biden stays in and Trump wins, I just want you to know you're the useful idiot fuck you.
I love how leftists abjectly refuse to participate in the primary process and then proceed to get high and mighty about how it turned out the wrong candidate because everyone else was supposed to do the revolution without them having to lift a finger.
Today's young leftists think they're all Robbespiere, but they're all Marat, a festering diseased bitter instigator who spent his days wasting in a tub telling other people how they should be doing the revolution he was taking credit for while literally naked on his ass all day.
I did participate in the primary process. I voted in every primary and election since I turned 18. I'm also not young.
I hate how liberals think that they know politics because they're used to arguing with Republicans. Republicans are so dumb and separated from reality that you can say almost anything and be more correct than them. So liberals think that they're smart. And they never bother to learn they're only a little less ignorant than Republicans.
Say what you will about marat. At least he participated in the French revolution and I for what he believed in. If you don't see his writing his labor, I fear that's because you're too uneducated to know how hard writing that much can be. Makes total sense to me. You'd characterize him as lazy because he had chronic illness. Seems like you're used to looking down on people less privileged than you.
I mean, to me its been pretty obvious that Biden has been sundowning rapidly for a while now.
Its also been obvious to me that, barring Trump being incarcerated, Biden will lose.
Incarceration for Trump is now looking far less likely.
Yep, duh obviously I think you should vote for not Trump as he is an authoritarian mad man who has now been greenlit by the Court he largely shaped to go from proto fascist to full fascist.
But uh yeah why are people now talking about a very public display of the thing many Biden sceptics have been concerned about for a while now?
Could it be that their previously established fears and warnings have now been proven correct?
Not a tankie. I don't want the US to collapse and burn, that's going to end badly for a lot of people. I want us to reform and do better, though I'm now convinced that that's not going to happen. I point this stuff out because I don't think Biden can win. I didn't think he could win last time, in all fairness, but he was and is a weak candidate, whose only shot lies in the democrats making the gamble that his opponent is weaker, which is kind of a stupid gamble to make imo. I don't want Trump to win, I want the democrats to hit the republicans like a run away steam engine and smash this fascist bullshit into the dirt. I WANT NOTHING MORE THAN FOR RONALD REAGAN'S GRAVE TO BELCH BLACK SMOKE FOR A WEEK STRAIGHT THIS NOVEMBER. Instead we're gambling if the guy who would have got sent home from being a Wal-Mart greeter with his debate performance can beat the guy who wants to hold military tribunals for political opposition. When Biden loses, I'm going to skullfuck the first Democrat who high-mindedly tells me this is really the fault of people not voting for their guy. No shit, do you want a gold star for that? Turns out when people don't vote for candidates, they don't win, whoda thunk it? Apparently not the goddamn DNC, since they keep seeing the ever-lowering RNC bar as an excuse to run correspondingly worse candidates each year instead of running a rock star that would shatter the Republicans. OH, what's that, the republicans have opened a portal to Hell and are running just Hitler and Charlie Manson for their ticket? Oh boy, Joe Biden might be too far left to win against that, we better see if we can get the actual corpses of Milton Friedman and Henry Kissinger to run for us. Fuck off. Of course people aren't excited to vote for a shitty candidate, because they're a shitty candidate. Get someone who can speak in complete sentences for God's sake.
My friend, I hear ya. And I agree. But you need to know that the time for those discussions was both years ago and constant, just not now.
No, you. I've been beating this drum since 2016 and "I get it, but now now" has always been the answer, and it was the answer in Obama II when we wanted codified gay marriage rights and more. If you've always just missed the boat, one starts to wonder if the boat was ever in the port to start with. And I think we both know the answer to that.
No amount of dithering about the conditions of things just now is going to change the fact that the candidate fucking sucks and, realistically, has not great chances of beating the bastard that wants to start having military tribunals for his political opponents. Biden has been looking and sounding pretty rough for the last six ish months, at least, and that debate performance was just the most pitiful thing I've ever seen. I've been watching the debates since Bush/Kerry, including Biden's previous performances, and I've never seen a candidate perform so badly. On average, Biden was barely intelligible, and at worst he rebooted on stage and beat medicare. And that was not his stutter, we have previous debate performances to reference that can show that well enough. He would get sent home from helping people pay for their car wash, he is not up to the fucking job and everyone knows it. The last ten years have been pretty fucking stupid, but this is taking it to a new level.
If you think leftists “just” shifted to hating Biden, I’ve got news for you. In fact, I don’t know anybody, I mean ANYbody on the left that has nothing but distain for Biden for the last several years. Did you ever consider that people are allowed different opinions from you without being paid operatives.
Nope, genocide is still the number one issue.
Yes, it makes the settler working class in this country more revolutionary. You can't turn a house slave into a freedom fighter until he gets put in the field.
Way to out that you're the one putting him there for your own ends.
You don't want a freedom fighter, you want to steal the slaves, use them as fodder, and make them thank you for it.
Some Caesar's Legion shit y'all are on.
Sorry but it's settlers that have taken the Faustian deal with the state not me. And you'll keep your real estate and cushy job and let everyone and anyone else that you don't identify with being in your same settler class die all the way until it's finally you that's in the crosshairs.
I'm not in a position to do anything to settlers.