Could Microsoft destroy Linux gaming by using the windows store
Could Microsoft destroy Linux gaming by using the windows store
So as we know Windows Platform Apps and WinUI3 apps do not work on Linux, I keep wondering if Microsoft were to launch a new API let’s say direct X 15 but limit it to Windows Store Apps, and provided a way for the apps to be installed from other stores like steam could they in time kill modern Linux gaming.
They tried. It was called UWP, but it never caught on and Microsoft quickly realized nobody wanted to use their store or even bother with the new format, so all their games also have a normal x86 version.
Their main mistake was never trying to make their walled garden not suck ass. I would try to install things from the windows store just to see about it back when I was running windows and it took an infernally long time to open the store, search for an app, and then install that app.
90% of the time apps would not even install or update for me. It was immensely annoying if I wanted to just send a quick message on WhatsApp, but I had to update, and then the update didn't work. It just gets stuck on 99% completed for eternity.
it took an infernally long time to open the store, search for an app, and then install that app.
After about a year of Linux and using package managers/AUR to install and update software, it blows my mind to think that I would ever choose to do it a different way.
I don't know how I put up with that shit for so many years.
Some people are making fun about this, but if you look at the history of the steam store and how Gabe is focusing so heavily on Linux, it is because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32 and he will be absolutely screwed.
Due to this, he is creating a safety net for himself and is pushing Linux hard as an alternative to Microsoft Windows so that he can not be so reliant on Microsoft and what they choose to do and not do. Specifically when it comes to win 32.
because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32
Got a source for this?
https://venturebeat.com/games/valves-gabe-newell-talks/
Some of what Gabe Newell said:
I think there’s a strong temptation to close the platform. If people look at what they can accomplish when they can limit competitors’ access to their platform, they say, “Wow, that’s really exciting.” Even some of the people who have open platforms, like Microsoft, get really excited by the idea that Netflix has to pay them rent in order to be on the Internet.
That’s not how we got here, and I don’t think that’s a very attractive future. So we’re looking at the platform, and up until now we’ve been a free rider. We’ve been able to benefit from everything that’s gone into the PC and the Internet. Now we have to start finding ways that we can continue to make sure there are open platforms. So that involves a couple of different things.
One, we’re trying to make sure that Linux thrives. Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people — in their thinking about platforms — don’t realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage. So we’re going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who’s engaged with us — putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It’s a hedging strategy.
I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. But when you start thinking about a platform, you have to address it.
This was quite a while ago and as you can imagine a lot of websites closed but I found some references to it here and there and I'm sure if you dig deeper you'll really find some good sources for yourself.
It's definitely a hedging strategy to invest in Linux so that they're not beholden to Microsoft.
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=12517&cid=315125
And this one even has Tim Sweeney talking about it.
It's very old news and the search engine that don't really reward old articles too much, but it's out there.
Can you expand on this please, why is Gabe so worried about win32?,
I just posted a few links to the other person who responded to me and you can follow those and there is more detail there.
But basically if Microsoft were to try, which they did, try and move to their own app store, which removes win32, then all of Valve's games ( in the store) will no longer become relevant over time, on the Windows platform.
You don't just spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on Linux for no reason at all. It's not like he's a fanboy, he's a businessman, and he's protecting his business.
Win32 is what basically all non MS store apps use. It's a bit old and bloated.
They'd probably feel the wrath of the EU if they tried that, hopefully. Also, I doubt Steam under the current management would do that since it would shoot them in the foot because they'd be giving up and abandoning the popular enough Steam Deck at that point. I'm sure they've made more than enough money back from it to not want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Hopefully, yes. But I'm sure MS and some hardware manufacturers salivate at the thought of being able to create a completely locked down computer platform. I own neither, but aren't both iPhone and Playstation users locked into the manufacturers' respective stores? Those seems to be perfectly legal in the EU.
I bought Gears 4 from the Windows store - they sold it as an exclusive there. We are not under any threat from that.
The store is clunky, it works about 40% of the time, it constantly needs updates, and there's an install limit of 10 times before you have to buy it again. Even if they locked a tech like DirectX behind it developers wouldn't use it.
and there’s an install limit of 10 times before you have to buy it again.
lol, wut?
it's not true.
while there is a 10 device 'limit', that refers to how many linked devices you can have. you can remove one to add another. info and how to do that
I mentioned this in a lower comment but im also curious if they made an API allowing apps like steam to install WinUI3 apps would the same be true.
I suspect if they let steam do it there is nothing stopping steam from running it on Linux as well, provided the usual compatibility features such as proton wouldnt be deliberately incapacitated by Microsoft; which in turn would piss off valve a lot because of the steam deck and OS.
They invested heavily in their Linux fork and compatibility suite, if windows store were to fuck with that I suspect they would be on the losing end. Steam users are very loyal to the company and by default extremely hostile to proprietary fuckery.
I think the time to do that has already passed; the Steam Deck and even Linux gaming in general has really taken off, so it would impact far more people than before. In addition, I think the EU has started breathing down their neck and will pounce on them if they do anything so blatantly monopolistic.
So this hypothetical "Direct X 15" would be limited to only Windows 11 users outside of europe, and the games wouldn't be distributable through Steam. I can't see that being a good pitch to developers, even if DirectX15 was really good.
They also tried this waay back in Windows 8 with the Windows Store, and it honestly was a flop.
Never underestimate the fleeting willpower of gamers in the face of exclusivity deals. It's already captured a large section of the market (xbox consoles literally just run modified windows now) and will likely capture more. It's all about adding enough of a marketing spin on it until the average gamer stops caring, or concedes the value proposition or their morals in favor of something they want more (like a next gen Skyrim reboot or something idk 🤷♂️)
…and give the EU grounds to rip them a new one? Yes please! I so want to see corpos broken up in my lifetime.
My hope is that the Microsoft store continues to be so shitty that users just reject any future attempts to do that.
That being said, if a large number of devs and users eventually adopted it, I would abandon gaming and stick with only native Linux games and vintage PC games that ran through Wine/Proton.
I refuse to use Windows for anything. And as much as I love gaming, I love my freedom, privacy, and rights as a user far more.
Hopefully that would get a lot of developers to switch to Vulkan.
DirectX 11 was enough for me to switch to Vulkan.
Aside from the reasons stated by other people in this thread, purely destroying something isn't really Microsoft's MO. Theirs is
Extend, Embrace, ExtinguishEmbrace, Extend, Extinguish.You got that the wrong way round. It's Embrace first, then Extend and Extinguish.
You're right. Whoops. Haha. Thanks, I fixed it.
IMO the Windows Store is why valve has invested heavily into gaming on Linux. Windows Store could easily become a huge Steam Store competitor if Microsoft were an effective company. So Valve wants to enable devices that don't run Windows. Numerous other benefits for something like the Steam Deck as well, but I'd bet we see another Steam Machine someday - probably after they convince more companies to support Linux
What the fuck are you talking about, Jesse?
they already tried. remember uwp?
@skymtf Well yes and no. Technically they probably could, but they'd likely incur the wrath of the EU doing so. That said if they were interested in a locked environment, they could have just never started porting Xbox games to PC.
What if they made an API allowing 3rd party stores, but the same security methods. Like MS would do this for the sole reason to kill device like the steam deck
even then Microsoft would not survive the EU as these changes you mention are solely to gatekeep gaming to their platform.
Also given Vulkan being pretty on top of things, HDR FSR/DLSS, Raytracing; Devs could simply opt to use the non-propritary interface.
Also, besides the EU, Microsoft would get A LOT of flak from digital Store Front Vendors like Steam, Epic, Blizzard Activision, EA...
I mean in terms of the reason to kill Linux gaming so devices like the steam deck would need to run windows for most games
There'd be no reason to. Anymore, I think they'd be more likely than that to try to port their Xbox game store to Linux than try to kill Linux gaming (though I doubt they'll do that either)
port their Xbox game store to Linux
Surely that wouldn't go anywhere even if they did do that
It might, if it worked well, but that's a big "if" and as I suggested in my original post I don't think it's particularly likely they'll do it either way
Look up Forza Motorsport, they already came up with some "Game Services" which make it unbootable on Linux
Hahahahahaha...
Sure.
