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I have lots of friends that are vegan/have been vegan, or are sympathetic to the cause. IRL I have had some wonderful conversations about veganism and the ethics of our diet. But on the Internet it's the vegans ironically that need to get out and touch grass. It's like there's no nuance to any conversation, like sorry I can be Peter Singer, it's actually kinda difficult to be that moral.
This. My experience has been that internet vegans are more concerned with judging others than caring about animals.
It started because a Lemmy.World ADMIN (allegedly carnist) decided to start removing comments about feeding a vegan diet to a cat.
The comments in question were perfectly fine, they literally explained how pets and specifically cats need a few very important nutrients, which are specifically added to vegan pet food. The comments explained in depth about what nutrients they need and where those nutrients come from originally. The comments also warned that you need to be very careful about what you feed them and that you have to do your research, and have to examine the behavior and health of your pet if you decide to do this.
Mister admin decided it was misinformation, even though it broke none of the Lemmy.World rules or /c/vegan rules. Nor was it even misinformation.
The /c/vegan mods in turn banned the Admin from the community because it was obvious there was no objective basis to these removals. The admin in turn got themselves unbanned and banned the mods.
So nuance you say?
Vegans get an amazing amount of hate. And this hate is public and ACCEPTED.
...carnist...
Like the words, "woke" and, "terf" the word, "carnist" identifies the non-ironic user as an ideological extremist. It isn't vegans who get a lot of hate, it is vegan extremists. I love my vegan friends and bend over backwards to accommodate them. People who use the word, "carnist" can choke on a horse dick.
I simply used the definition that was used in the post by the /c/vegan mod(s).
The /c/vegan mods in turn banned the Admin from the community because it was obvious there was no objective basis to these removals. The admin in turn got themselves unbanned and banned the mods.
What else did they expect?
Allegedly carnist
So, someone sane.
If you think a cat can be vegan, please never own a cat.
Agreed.
Humans can be vegan because we're omnivores. Meat isn't the only source we need to get our nutrition. Our bodies are fantastic at pulling nutrients from different food sources.
Cats and dogs are not. They are carnivores. Their bodies cannot adequately process the nutrition from non-meat sources.
Humans can also take supplements for whatever nutrients we're missing. It's much harder to get an animal to take them, especially when you're looking at how many would be required on a vegan diet.
Finally, ask any vet what foods to avoid and they will tell you that you don't want to ever give your animal those small-batch/boutique foods. They are almost never nutritionally complete since they're designed to appear appealing to the humans, not the animals. They also often aren't produced in a clean food-safe environment.
They can have a perfectly fine vegan diet.
I think all of you need to: GET OVER IT.
It's just that simple.
I mean you're the one coming into a thread in a different community getting snarky with multiple different people who are all being pretty level headed so
Let's just say you're right, it's perfectly possible and healthy for the cat.
Does that make it ethical to force a carnivorous hunter animal on a vegan diet? Are you going to force it to stay inside to limit the possibility for it to catch mice & birds just to be sure?
Just beyond the physical possibility, how ethical is it to force our choices onto our pets?
I think it is a lot more ethical than forcing death because people enjoy eating their meat.
Also, "forced" is the wrong word. Only very few vegans would be stupid enough to not monitor their pet in these cases. And you can talk shit about them as much as you want because they are wrong. But somebody that's just trying to see if it's possible while monitoring and following up on the health of their animals? Sure.
Aww buddy. You lil' hypocrite. Who's a little boy that pays people to have animals killed? You are, yes you are! Awww!
What was that about me caring for a cat again?
You people are unhinged.
Ok vegan
Yep I care for all living animals. That's why I said "hypocrite", because I don't think meat eaters should even join the discussion considering they pay for murder. While vegans discuss having a healthy cat with less murder.
But hey, you do you. I'm hypocrite sometimes too. It took me 25 years before I realized I was selfish.
Ok vegan
no one pays for murder
Awww. I would love to live in blissful ignorance like you.
everything ive said is true
Who’s a little boy that pays people to have animals killed?
no one does that
Ok, i get it, it's fun to hate on the vegan, but he's right and you're not.
If you buy meat somewhere part of the price is you paying for the person that killed it. That's obvious right?
Of course in relation to the cat, even if there's a healthy vegan diet possible, he's wrong imo. Why force our choices onto pets?
It even comes packaged, with a price on it.. And you choose "yes i want murder" when you put it in your little basket..
your version of the story leaves out some important facts like it doesn't matter whether you put it in your cart because it's already dead, and the person who killed it was already paid by somebody who wasn't you.
That's a very basic and low IQ comment. I suggest you look up how economics work. Just because it's there doesn't mean that your money doesn't pay for the next. That's how it always works. If nobody wants some animal killing then they won't be killed. Pretty simple.
That’s a very basic and low IQ comment. I suggest you look up how economics work.
this is handwaving, not evidence for your position
Then don't use that stupid argument.
You think iPhones are "already made" and it won't make Apple a big company if you buy one?
If nobody wants some animal killing
do you have a plan to achieve this? I'll help. let me know when I'm the last one.
What are you saying? Keep your ignorant sarcasm for yourself if you can, please.
I'm being earnest
I really don't think it's hate, in the classic sense. I think most of it is sort of a hamarotic response that's made possible by the fact that these forums show up in everybody's feed, and given that vegans typically have negative views on the eating practices of the rest of the world, can be seen referring to those people as they do in private. As you seem to be insinuating, it feels-bad-man to have your lifestyle casually attacked, and nearly always elicits retaliation because humans.
I feel like a lot of it is a matter of terminology. For instance, using the word "omnivore" instead of "carnist", or "Bovine Matchmaker", instead of "Animal Rapist".
it's not rape, it is a veterinary procedure
“Bovine Matchmaker”, instead of “Animal Rapist”.
We shouldn't tone down our language because others might be offended by it. "Bovine matchmaker" just isn't the reality of what artificial insemination is.
I agree with you, but/and you are making my point for me.
I'm not sure how I am?
It's hate.
They are projecting their ignorance of their own molested values and morals.
People hate it when you get real, and veganism is the realest it can get. "Live and let live"
I'm going to skip a LOT of the trope level arguments here. How about this:
Do you believe that lions in captivity (whatever your feelings about lions in captivity are), should be fed a vegan diet?
I bet the cats being fed a vegan diet aren't living that long.
But on the Internet it’s the vegans ironically that need to get out and touch grass.
I keep hearing about these crazy vegans from other folks complaining on the internet. I never actually get to meet them in the wild.
But if I flip over to YouTube Recommended Feed I can find Liver King tier content all the fuck over the front page. Definitely try to steer clear of anything "Recommended" these days, but if I had my ear-holes getting saturated with JBP / Joe Rogan Carnivore Diet insanity 24/7, that might wear down my ability to have a polite conversation.
Maybe that's what other people are seeing out on the YT comments sections?
Here on Lemmy I've been accused of torturing and raping animals as I'm unashamedly an omnivore. I'm a hunter as well.
I worry about animal suffering enough that we've bought a small farm and hope to raise all our own meat. I've actually worked on factory farms and know firsthand the suffering of animals under that system.
However, there are fanatical vegans on Lemmy that do a fantastic job of driving away those of us sympathetic to vegan ethics and morality.
Here on Lemmy I’ve been accused of torturing and raping animals
I’ve actually worked on factory farms
Depending on what all you did to the animals at those factory farms, you might have been torturing and raping animals. I did horseback riding for like 7 years of my life. I don't deny I was an animal abuser. The only thing I can do about it now is never get on a horses back again. Denying I was ever doing abuse won't help me.
RAPE! RAPE! MURDER!!!!1!
This bullshit doesn't help your cause at all. I'm the rare omnivore that is actually sympathetic to moral issues of factory farmig and animal suffering.
You need to like unfuck your head and try to turn down whatever preaching you're listening to. That's some bad religion that's got ahold of you.
You're no different than those 'pro-life' whack jobs.
Here on Lemmy I’ve been accused of torturing and raping animals as I’m unashamedly an omnivore
I'm sorry to hear that. Online discourse does get extremely personal, particularly when people don't know each other.
I’ve actually worked on factory farms and know firsthand the suffering of animals under that system
Well then... not to be rude but that means you've literally been complicit in torturing and raping animals.
There it is.
So, as an ignorant teenager, cleaning chicken houses of rotten corpses and chicken shit for $5/hr: I was actually fucking those chickens? I was kid chicken raper? The steers I raised in elementary school, I suppose I fucked them as well.
See, that's the thing. I saw how bad it was and have worked and saved for many years so I will no longer have to participate in a system that involves industrial suffering.
But nope, I'm totally such a raper. Fuck you and your sanctimonious bullshit. You don't know me or my circumstances. I know plenty of Southern Baptists and Church of Christ that spew this same shit. Y'all would get along real well, if you only listened to your tones and didn't pay attention to the words.
Fucking fanatics can suck my fucking balls, all y'all the same.
So, as an ignorant teenager, cleaning chicken houses of rotten corpses and chicken shit for $5/hr: I was actually fucking those chickens? I was kid chicken raper?
I would like to think "I saw the horrors and really learned something" would be the appropriate response, not "I saw the horrors, so now I'm immune to criticism for eating meat."
But I do begin to see why vegans upset you so much.
If you're trying to make a point for there not being as many "crazy vegans" on the internet, well, you're fucking it up.
I don't eat factory farmed meat so I am not interested in your stupid shit
The zigging and zagging in your story reads like a Just So Ben Shapiro piece.
Next, I'm expecting to hear how you've got a condition that makes it ableist to mention veganism in front of you.
Hey don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people that need to touch grass, there's some areas that I have ignorant opinions about. But the best way to fix that is to have constructive mature conversations with real people.
Ps. Carnivore diet is silly and leaves you with less energy than 4 well rounded meals a day, even if it is consistent. Smaller complete meals throughout the day can give you more consistently high energy than ketosis ever will.
You don't see them in the wild because they're terminally online babies who can only exist in an internet bubble, and likely don't represent anything but a tiny fraction of vocal, obtuse jerkoffs compared to the population of vegans.
You don’t see them in the wild because they’re terminally online babies
I still don't know who you're actually referring to. Where are the JBP vegan equivalents?
This guy for example: https://lemmy.world/comment/12082933