You're viewing a single thread.
I think the difference is that one can be experienced by everyone through demonstration, and the other is an internalized representation that people expect others to learn and know. I don't give a fuck to know anything about anyone. I don't even want to know your name, let alone what you want to fuck, how you want to fuck, if you want to fuck, etc. I don't like frat-boys prattling on about their conquests either, it's obnoxious. But I'm kind of in a gray area too. Liberals call me conservative, and conservatives call me liberal. Fuck me, right? I want LGBTQ+/Straight people to just shut up about it, and I want everyone to treat them equally and not discriminate against them.
I want LGBTQ+/Straight people to just shut up about it
That's nice. I just want to exist, without the growing fear of being attacked or murdered in the street.
Gay people: “hey I exist” You: “God I wish they would just shut up about it”
Congrats, you’re the problem. You treat lgbt people no differently than how centrist racists treat black people.
In my experience, someone who claims to be in the middle is actually on the right but has miraculously realized that makes them an asshole in today's political climate so they pretend to be "in the middle".
You and every other extremist have this same viewpoint.
Calling everyone to the left of you an extremist is also highly indicative of a conservative asshole.
I'm further left than the "left" on random internet forums. The difference isn't that they're more left of me, the difference is they've become professional victims. Even my very neutral arguments here have been met with everyone replying with "you're basically murdering us with your thoughts!"
As fellow an enlightened centrist myself, I often recommend the compromise of letting gays marry, but taking away their voting right.
Yet, the liberals are outraged by this idea, unwilling to meet in the middle.
So who’s the radical now?
\s
Honestly, I say split marriage up into a government contract that has all the benefits for everyone, don't call it marriage but call it something else. THEN, deem "Marriage" a purely theatrical thing that anyone can hold a ceremony for and let that be the end of it. Get rid of the "you have to be in love" requirement, and just call it a day.
I'm kind of in a gray area too
You're just an asshole. How very privileged of you to tell people to shut up about wanting to not be belittled, harassed, and killed for something they have no control over.
Reading comprehension 101. Look into it.
Ah thanks, I was just confused about OP saying they should shut up. As long as you say everyone should shut up, it's fine...
You'll always be what you always were. You're mad at the wrong enemy.
And that's why they keep complaining that they have SO MANY ENEMIES. Not LGBT people in general. But THESE people. The people here on Lemmy acting righteous. They aren't righteous at all, they're twats who have to be correct at all cost.
Corrected about what?
I want LGBTQ+/Straight people to just shut up about it, and I want everyone to treat them equally and not discriminate against them.
We would if they did. Duh.
Yes. Fuck you.
Fuck you for not giving a fuck that a shit ton of people do fucking care that queer people exist and are actively trying to drive us out of of society. Fuck you for not caring that the standard rule on the right is now to refer to the LGBT community as pedophiles - criminal rapists of children. Fuck you for not caring that people are showing up with fucking AR-15s in the children’s section of libraries to defend kids against us.
That’s what fucking Pride is about. Pride is about saying No to shitheads like them, but also shitheads like you who have the privilege to not care.
So, yes. Very much. Fuck you.
Nobody gives a shit that queer, les, trans, bi, gay people exist. Keep existing! The majority of people simply do...not...really...care one way or the other! You simply latch onto the 1% of people who spew hate your way and use that as an excuse.
Stop using radical right wing nutjobs as an excuse to act like children on the internet when someone calls you out for being obnoxious about it. And that wasn't an "informal you"...that was YOU. You "FriendofAlphaba". Not the grander "you" meaning the LGBT community.
99.9% of the LGBT community are great people. But you've got basically what amounts to the mirror image of Q-tards roaming around in the community basically chastising anyone who doesn't bow to every opinion they have.
Fuck you. I don't care about you. You wanna talk about something productive? Want me to teach you how to use a 3D printer? Want me to teach you how to build PCs? Let's go, I'll teach you all about it. YES, even you FriendofElphaba... because I don't give a flying FUCK what you ARE. I don't even give a shit if you share a different opinion than me. I'll still listen. I'll still teach. IDGAF who you are as a person, that doesn't concern me.
You are the problem. The right wing nut jobs are in charge because chucklefucks like you can’t be fucked to give a good goddamn about anything outside of a narrow view in which you’re the goddamned misunderstood oppressed motherfuckers. You’re the “stop making race an issue” crowd. You’re the “women have the same rights as men now and should shut up” crowd.
I hate to break it to you, and I know you’re not going to hear it. You’re the person Martin Luther King was talking about in his Letter from Birmingham Jail. At the time, there was a “call to unity.” There was a perception that black Americans shouldn’t be protesting. That they should wait for the changes they want to just happen naturally. That if they stopped making such a fuss about equality, it’s just happen. Let me give you some quotes, in case it’s been awhile since you’ve studied it.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly ... Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
You not only have a shallow understanding - your understanding is deliberately shallow and you revel in it as if it gives you some kind of intellectual validity. It does not.
And the first PC I built myself out of the parts I saved up for was a 286, bitch. The first game I played was on a Bell Labs Vax on an actual teletype using a coupler with a rotary phone.
It’s okay to be a nerd. We make shitloads of money and people are interested in what we say. You don’t need to be a dickweed.
Congratulations on being completely out in left field and not even knowing it. The density would rival a black hole. In your effort to be greatly offended, you missed that I said I wish STRAIGHT people would shut up about it too, and missed the mark entirely.
Wonderful. Congratulations. People are now dumber for having read what you wrote.
Nobody gives a shit that queer, les, trans, bi, gay people exist.
Jesus Christ, you're delusional if you actually believe that. Just for starters, queer people care a hell of a lot that they exist. Are they nobody to you? And what about the far right? They care a great deal about making queer people either run away, go into hiding, or die. And before you say it, no, I am absolutely not exaggerating or being dramatic. It is very fucking easy to find right wingers taking openly about their desires, and it's equally easy to find news stories about queer people fleeing their homes are being murdered for being queer.
If you're worried about being murdered for being queer, get a gun. Stop advocating for loss of guns and take them up yourselves. Kill these people who are trying to take your life. You have that right.
I don't give a fuck to know anything about anyone. I don't even want to know your name,
Sounds like you're just a cunt
Fuck me, right?
Yes
Yeah pretty much. Im interested in what people know, rather than what they ARE. I don't care what people are. I don't care about people. People largely suck. If you're the type of person who bleats on about actors and actresses and who's marrying who and who's doing what... you're more than braindead, you're a drain on the living.
Show me your skills. Show me your hobbies. Show me what you make. Show me your passions, your art, your accomplishments. I don't give a fuck about you as a thing for me to objectify. I don't care about your body or your preferences. I care about your intellect and passion.
I kind of get what you mean and, while I think the way you've worded it is a bit cold and dehumanizing, I'm inclined to agree since I'm much more interested in what people do and how they act than what clothes they wear or whatever label they decide to brand themselves with.
At the same time... You don't have to deeply care about how people see themselves in order to value their right to express themselves or be the person they want to be.
I have friends who transitioned from male to female. I still think of them as the same person and I don't really care how they dress or what their personal anatomy is like, but I do feel proud and happy for them that they are living their best and working towards being the person they want to be, in the same way that I would feel good about myself if I lost that extra weight or whatever.
In other words, the clothes people wear, what genitalia they have, or what pronouns they label themselves with may be totally superficial and unimportant, but the happiness and authenticity that comes from living freely and being the person who you want to be are real and, I think, really important.
And that seems to be the jumped-to misconception here; that I don't value people's right to be the people they want to be. I said that I want people to be treated equally, but the hate I'm sure people had already decided on in the first part of my paragraph already sealed the deal if I was good/bad in their mind.
People, and the interaction between people seems to be the most common way that information is transferred. I don't care to stifle anybody, I don't care to hate on anybody, but I do enjoy lifting them up by educating then. I love when people want to know about something I have experience with. I share that knowledge. That's what people should do. Share knowledge. Stop grouping things into categories and then discriminating.
I know this might blow your mind, but people can be and do multiple things at once.
I knew an astrophysicist who loved trashy romances. Instead of asserting what you want from the people around you when you interact with them, maybe consider that humans are complex and made up of many stages of evolution that forced us to be interested in the social lives of others. (Sometimes as a preservation instinct; is the friend of my friend going to convince them to withhold food because I'm different? Sometimes as entertainment; is this person I don't know in a stable romantic raltionship?)
And as a result, take a moment and recognize that the "I'm respectful of other people's privacy by not wanting to know about them" angle only works if everyone believes in Live and Let Live. Which is very obviously not the case.
You still seem to think that I care that people contain these things. I could not be happier if the entire world population ceased to exist, and I was left with the knowledge of the world to entertain me until the passing of eternity. So long as knowledge exists, I don't care how I obtain it. The only thing that gives a bone-mech-flesh-suit any worth...at all...is knowledge.
If someone's legal name was Robert, but they told you they go by Rob, would that be the same to you?
Why would you assume I wouldn't call people by what they preferred to be called by?
Probably because of your:
I don’t give a fuck to know anything about anyone. I don’t even want to know your name
quote.
Right because people are just a sum of their accomplishments. And you said you don't want to know anything about anyone. Now you're pulling back from that to a different shittily explained opinion
You just seem perpetually offended, and now you're twisting my words. I don't care about people. I don't want to know them on a personal level. The only people I care about as persons are my wife and children. I care about their wellbeing, I care about their fears and who they are as individuals. I care that they are well and healthy and how their lives are progressing.
I don't care about that from anyone else. So I don't give a fuck about who anyone else is as a person. I don't want to know, don't care, not relevant.
You sound kinda pretentious
Sociopath.
What if your child questioned their gender identity?
One of them does, and I'm supportive. Was this supposed to be some sort of "Gotcha!"?
Genuine curiosity. In glad to hear you're supportive.
Not wanting to know personal details of random people = cunt?
Random people? He said ANYONE. Try reading
So yes, a person not caring to know anything about anyone let alone their names is a cubt
Anyone is a random person to any other random person including him.
You're an idiot
Good argument, thank you for your input.
From my perspective as an American, I find it difficult to reconcile these two statements:
-
"I want everyone to treat them equally and not discriminate against them"
-
"I’m kind of in a gray area"
In practice, there is no middle ground in American politics. You vote Republican, or you vote Democrat. This is most true in presidential elections but still generally true in state and even local elections throughout the country. The parties are pretty well aligned top to bottom. Conservative or liberal.
Like you, I want everybody to be treated equally. For me, there's no gray area about it. I hate how little choice I have in politics, but this is the reality I live in, and this is the reality I have to vote in.
If you have a clear alignment to one party or the other, I wouldn't call that a "gray area". And if you don't? If you don't have a clear alignment to one or the other? In America? In the 2020s? When one party is very clearly, and very persistently violating that core value of "treat them equally and not discriminate against them"? Like I said, it's hard for me to reconcile.
That's my perspective. Even assuming you are also American, I don't think you're a bad person. However, I do think it's worth really reexamining what's important to you. I hope that when it comes time to vote, you will not turn your back on that core value of equality. Let it be a high priority. Leave that gray area.
That's a quality rant, well done!
You kidding? You think I vote republican? Those mother fuckers are nuts.
But the "left" (what I call right-lite) isn't some picnic either.
I have allegiances to nobody. Both parties are trash. Off with their heads.
It's people like you who think it's an "One or the other" deal. No. Fuck that. Not all votes have an (R) or (D) next to them.
But as soon as I say that some lunatic is going to come around and claim "you're throwing your vote to the OTHER party by doing that!"...fuck off with that shit too.
You think I vote republican? Those mother fuckers are nuts.
I thought by "gray area" you meant that you are roughly 50-50 on the parties. I apologize if I misunderstood.
I'd be interested to hear who you are voting for who's not D or R, though I don't expect you to doxx yourself with local election details. I do vote for third parties and independent candidates in some local elections when that's viable. Even then, much of the time it's the same candidate endorsed by one of the major parties. I support the adoption of ranked-choice voting (or something similar) at all levels of elections so that third parties in bigger elections can be more than spoilers. I lived through 2000. I saw how that goes.
Many other countries have a wide variety of parties and more political choice. I believe it's possible for America to get there as well in the future. When it comes to the presidential election, like I said, I have to vote in the reality I live in and I don't consider it a gray area. It sounds like we just disagree on what's "gray" here.
The more local you get, the more subtleties there are.
Honestly I can't wait for ranked choice voting to take hold too - but it won't without violent revolution in my lifetime. That's kind of the issue we find ourselves in. Politicians are constantly shown unwilling to hold themselves accountable, they are essentially unpoliceable (though I'm hoping that we're seeing this change). This sham as fuck country is balls-deep in corruption, and at the risk of sounding like trump-tard, there are some pretty clear instances where Dems seem like they are not willing to shine a light on vote disparities. When it comes to Republicans, every accusation is a confession. I'm pretty sure Dems are aware of this shit going on too, but are unwilling to rock the boat because they're afraid of what's coming -- the American people being untrusting in our elections.
That's part of what all of this bullshit stems from in the first place. There's a minority in this country that make garbage laws for people they don't govern. I'm living in it right now. DeSanctimonious and his "don't say gay" laws are bullshit. All of the books being stripped from libraries right now, is backwards. I am literally sick of hearing about it constantly. I don't want to talk about it, I want to talk to people about things that matter. I want to discuss how to help people fix their cars. I want to teach people how to design and engineer robots. I don't give a shit who you are. I would actually take JOY in never knowing another persons name, gender, gender identity, sex, child status, marriage status, etc ever again. That's what's so wonderful about the internet and conversations like these. Nobody ever brings it up! It's a wonderful place and I wish the real world were the same.
-
Don't ask don't tell failed because the stigma of being different forces you into silence and trying to conform.
Do I want to hear if you're a "top" or a "power bottom"? No. I don't want to hear about anyone's bedroom preferences.
That doesn't mean that I want you to never talk about your significant other, regardless of their gender.
You can separate bedroom preferences from love preference, and the inability to do so speaks pretty loudly about how you view your own relationships.
I appreciate that you want an equal world where differences don’t matter to the point we just ignore them.
But, when you say they’re fine but they just need to shut up and essentially stay out of your sight, it sounds like you’re treating them like children. As if you just want those uppity blacks, wait I mean LGBTs, to stop contaminating your view of the world.
Take off your blinders and read again.
So you don't think hermaphrodites exist and doctors should stop talking about it?
That is not at all how I understand him. He just does not want to have to deal with such personal details. The same way I don't want to deal with someones obsession or aversion with baking. It just doesn't matter. Live your life, let others live their life.
The unfortunate reality is that some groups don’t have the luxury of just living their lives. They have to speak out to get equal treatment. And then the people who aren’t allowing them that luxury in the first place also speak up against them. If the bigots would just shut the fuck up and go away, we would have no problem
The same way I don't want to deal with someones obsession or aversion with baking.
Except there are people who want to kill/hurt/make life impossible for anyone who wants to bake. So the people who do want to are understandably protesting for their right to be bakers.
Exactly. Thank you for explaining on my behalf.
The problem here is context. When there’s a large group of people who care enough to try to remove and demonize queer people on society you should care more. Apathy is not a good trait to have here.
If I don't see race/gender identity I'm a bigot.
If I see race/gender identity I'm a bigot.
If I Ignore race/gender identity I'm a bigot.
If I'm an "ally" then I'm not valid because I'm not one of the identities...Shut the fuck up. I'm always going to be a bigot to fucks like you. No matter what I attempt.
You are a prime example of why people suck.
We're supposed to see race. Not seeing race is ignoring the systematic problems that exist in our society that prevent minorities from enjoying the same privilege as whites. Not seeing race is just like saying "All Lives Matter" and missing the point of why the BLM movement is so important.
Trying to say that "seeing race" makes someone a bigot is misguided. It's generalizing based on race makes someone a bigot.
The same goes for sexuality and gender identity.
The problem that I have noticed is that "seeing" these things requires sympathy and understanding. These can be tough and very tiring for a lot of people. But what those people need to remember is that it is a constant struggle for minorities and that we who do have privilege must be there to fight when they can't.
"White Privilege" isn't a thing. "Majority Privilege" is. But Majority privilege doesn't allow people to get away with the same racist shit that they complain about. In every country across the world, the race-majority, class-majority, etc is given privileges of being part of that majority. "White Privilege" is an excuse and a sham to get others to fight among themselves in the lower ranks of society. It's a perfect way to take anger that should be directed at the Elon Musks of the world, and direct it downwards. Much like someone not tipping makes you mad at the customer instead of the employer who should be paying wages. It's a sham and you're falling for it.
Oh I see race, gender identity alright. I see it for the bullshit it is, and refuse to participate in it. I bet you can't even accurately describe what makes a person part of the "White Race" when it comes down to it. It's just an excuse to hate. But you've justified this hate as "necessary for the greater good".
This is why people suck. This is why I don't give a fuck who they ARE. Fuck all that baggage. I'm done being a pawn for the rich and fighting my fellow person because of their perceived identity.
I never mentioned White Privilege, but i understand how you feel. However, it's all semantics cause when the people with "Majoity Privilege" are classified as white and the minorities are classified as "not white"... that's just "White Privilege" with extra steps.
And I agree that our focus should be on the elites who are lobbying and buying officals and senators to keep us downtrodden and confused and fighting amongst ourselves. However, I would argue that fighting for minorities and those persecuted for just being alive and true to themselves IS the same as fughting against those same "Elon Musks of the world."
And yes, race is bullshit but the only way to not participate is to not have a race.
And I get that you may be angry with everything and everyone, but do you really want us to stop fighting for your rights?
One of my favorite milling/lathe YouTube channels is a hermaph. I didn't care to find that out, but someone cared to tell me. I don't give a fuck that they're hermaph, they make awesome content. They're an awesome creator and source of knowledge for me and others. I have a massive amount of respect for their craft, and a massive amount of respect for the skills they've acquired. I don't care about anything else. What's between their doctor and them is between their doctor and them...
So if a large group of people started a movement to take the rights away from/kill all hermaphrodites, would you care? Probably not, right?
You obviously don't have very good reading skills. Did you miss the part where I said I wanted everyone to be treated equally? It's...you know...RIGHT IN THE FIRST POST YOU FUCKING KNUCKLE DRAGGING APE.
This isn't the GOTCHA that you think it is. You are the prime example of why "people" are fucking stupid. YOU are the reason I avoid people. Because you latch onto shit like this, don't understand basic words, and then start ... whatever THIS is... this "If you don't bow to all of my opinions EXACTLY then you're a problem!" mentality...
Did you miss the part where I said I wanted everyone to be treated equally?
Yeah, well, whether you want it or not, that's what is happening.
You say you want everyone treated equally, but that's clearly lip service only.
You are the prime example of why “people” are fucking stupid. YOU are the reason I avoid people.
Good. The less people like you we have around, the better.
This isn’t the GOTCHA that you think it is.
I just pointed out your hypocrisy, but it seems you're too dumb to see it.
It’s…you know…RIGHT IN THE FIRST POST YOU FUCKING KNUCKLE DRAGGING APE.
Whoa, calm down snowflake, no need to get so triggered 🤣
Whoa, calm down snowflake, no need to get so triggered 🤣
Thanks. That helps. Now I know why you're here. You're not here to have a conversation in good faith. Goodnight.
Okay sweety, if that's what you need to tell yourself.
"You are not allowed to complain, even if people are actively out to kill you, your problems do not concern me"
How can saying that to a marginalized group not make you a cunt?
Maybe the fact that I didn't say that at all?
Well said. Keep you personal details to yourself. Keep yourself out of the personal details of others.
Exactly. You have no right getting to know people or making friendships.