Serious statement: I don't understand the argument that not voting for Harris was the morally correct thing to do, because of Gaza. Why does anyone believe this?
Serious statement: I don't understand the argument that not voting for Harris was the morally correct thing to do, because of Gaza. Why does anyone believe this?
And I'm being serious. I feel like there might be an argument there, I just don't understand it. Can someone please "steelman" that argument for me?
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I can't speak for others, but I can tell you why I didn't vote for Harris.
I am a lifelong independent voter. In 2016 I wrote in Kanye West, in 2020 I wrote in Nobody, this year I didn't even vote. (I also voted Bush in '04, Ron Paul in '08, and Obama in '12) I go to the polls even if I am planning to writing in a presidential pick because there are usually ballot issues or other races I care about.
I decided not to vote when the DNC opted to not hold a primary even though absolutely no one wanted a Biden second term and the deal was elect Biden in 2020 and they'd find someone good for '24. After Biden's disastrous debate and he dropped out, I was angry because everyone said no to Kamala already in 2020, but they still ran her.
On the issues, Kamala is too centrist for me and Gaza is a deal breaker. Most Palestinian casualties have been civilians and waaaaay too many children. Using my tax dollars to kill foreign children is not acceptable. I don't care that Israel is our ally or they they provide us an important strategic resource in the region. I honestly don't care if Israel wants to do a genocide or if Palestine wants to do a bunch or terrorism, that's on them. But we don't have to support it and I won't vote for anyone who will.
The Democrats at least call for a ceasefire in Gaza, even though they send weapons to Israel. Trump openly admits that he would like Bibi to flatten the place with no regard for human life.
But I guess both parties are the same.
To the dead Palestinian children they are.
Are you a dead Palestinian Child? No.
Not voting is basically the same as giving Netanjahu Carte Blanche to kill more innocent palestinians.
While I understand not being happy with the Status Quo there's also always a worse option. You now elected that "Worse Option™".
I accept my responsibility in how things have turned out. I would feel absolutely horrible and would be wrought with guilt for my entire life if it had come down to a single vote, but I would not have voted for either Kamala or Trump even if I had gone to the polls.
I understand that makes me responsible in a very small way for Trump winning and I don't like it, but I accept that. It was a risk I was willing to take in February when I decided not to vote.
Gaza wasn't why I decided not to vote at all, the disconnect between voter and politician and the way queer issues were completely abandoned this election were why I didn't vote. If Kamala had said she would end our alliance with Israel if they didn't stop killing civilians she still wouldn't have gotten my vote because I wasn't casting one to begin with.
Huh pretty sure YOU elected the worse option,
As I am not eligible to vote in the US I certainly didn't.
Ah so you are an euro pretending you're a yank
All I am is disappointed, I ain't pretending to be anything else.
Disappointed in what? The system is rotten. They are pulling the same shit in europe. The far right is rising, the libs gets elected, do fascist policies, everybody's bitching about immigrants, the bosses have more money than ever, everybody's unhappy, thus the far right is rising
If Gaza is such a hot topic for you, how do you justify letting someone that absolutely despises muslims and would love to see them eradicated, enter the white house and likely lift all restrictions on Israel and delivery anything they ask for? There's little doubt that Haris would have changed the situation much at all, but a Trump win basically solidifies the Palestinian's fate to die as Israel's war equipment guinea pigs. Do you feel like your inaction is fine because either way, the genocide doesn't end?
Do you feel like your inaction is fine because either way, the genocide doesn't end?
Pretty much. Less genocide is not a compelling argument. The children who died with Kamala in the White House would be just as dead with Trump.
What about the kids who wouldn't die under kamala but now will? You say less genocide is the same, but even if it's 10% less, I bet those 10% of kids would want kamala.
Any innocent death is unacceptable. If under Trump every single Palestinian in Gaza would be killed and under Kamala a single old man would die, I still would make the same choice.
That old man has just as much right to live as anyone else, just because he is the only casualty that doesn't make his life any less valuable or gives someone any more right to kill him.
I am truly sorry this is the outcome we have gotten and that my actions have played a small part in how things have unfolded. But I do not regret my choice not to vote.
You voted for genocide, idiot, shut the fuck up.
If you're not gonna adress anything I said, you should reconsider the value of your time here, it's being wasted.
Oh wait lol, BOT alert, this account was created literally 2 hours ago to shit on people in politics channels.
You got me comrad. I'm currently in the lubjanka with medvedev, we're shoving caviar in our butthole.
Americans are still stuck in their retarded cold war logic lmao. What a bunch of idiot.
Ej, das a good one!
Kanye West?
well at least you're consistent...
Btw, your chosen course of actions indirectly supported the option of spending even more tax dollars on killing people in gaza, so you might want to consider breaking your consistent streak of picking the wrong choice and try woting in a way that aligns with your stated goals
To be fair he hadn't outed himself as a racist asshat in 2016. He was just a narcissist I thought was funnier than Trump.
As to your point about my inaction contributing to more dead in Gaza, I am indifferent. Any blood on our hands in Gaza is unacceptable. Had Kamala been chosen in a primary I might have considered voting for her as a compromise candidate, but having her foisted on us after the other compromise candidate was too stubborn to step down before he got in the way is bullshit.
Gaza was what OP asked about, but it's definitely not the only thing I care about at the polls. The main reason I decided not to vote at all is because the will of the people is not reflected by any politicians. There are a dozen issues most Americans agree on (legal weed, minimum wage) that our current politicians won't address because they are at odds with donors. I decided it wasn't worth participating in the political system again until our elected officials do what we want instead of their donors.
If the oligarchy wants to take over officially I can't stop them, but I don't have to participate either.
Unlike you voting for the dem, which was directly supporting spending more tax dollars on killing people in gaza. Funny how americans are so brainwashed they need their bad-faithed gaslighting not to feel bad about voting for litteral genociders lmao
I strongly disagree with aspects of your perspective but I appreciate your honest engagement
We're in kind of a mess right now. The best way we can get out of it is if all of us little people stick together. I'm not a conservative but by Lemmy standards my politics and world view are alien. We all need to figure out a way to coexist and work together if we are ever going to have a chance to deprogram our MAGA neighbors and find a way forward together.
It seems productive to try to share my weird ass views and try to find common ground.
I strongly think what you did is incorrect but I appreciate you sharing your view, and disapprove those who downvoted you. Upvoted.
Agreeing with you on Palestine, but I think Trump will be way worse, in that case and many others.