1y ago

Linux Mint Debian Edition officially released

blog.linuxmint.com LMDE 6 “Faye” released! – The Linux Mint Blog

LMDE 6 has been officially released. The big deal about this is that it's based on the recently released Debian 12 and also that being based on Debian LMDE is 100% community based.

If you've been disappointed by what the Linux corporations have been doing lately or don't like the all-snap future that Ubuntu has opened, then this is the distro for you.

I'm running it as my daily driver and it works exactly like the regular Mint so you don't lose anything. Clem and team have done a great job, even newbies could use Debian now.

Personally I think LMDE is the future of Linux as Ubuntu goes it's own way, and this is a good thing for Mint and the Linux community. Let's get back to community distros and move away from the corps.

EDIT: LMDE is 64bit only. There is no 32bit option.

Linux @lemmy.ml

mr_MADAFAKA @lemmy.ml

1y ago

LMDE 6 “Faye” released! – The Linux Mint Blog

blog.linuxmint.com

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122 comments

I've never had a use for Linux Mint myself, but I'm still happy to see them cut out the middle man and base it directly off of Debian. Hopefully being closer to the source will result in even more upstream contributions.
- Oh, no. They consider Ubuntu the best APT base out there, and even after some trouble with Canonical, they insist on basing Mint on Ubuntu. This is a plan B, it came precisely after the differences between Mint and Ubuntu were public, but I can't find any source of that episode between Canonical and Clemente Lefebvre.
  EDIT: Found one.
  
  Big thing about being based on Ubuntu is that the community support is the biggest. Any issue you find, you can google, and there's a 99% chance there'll be an answer for Ubuntu which can be applied as-is to Mint.
  
  Ah, my bad. I thought LM was going all in on Debian. Well, I'm glad they're at least providing the option then.

Copypasting: (source)
The cautious approach for LMDE5 users: If your system is working fine and there are no especially must-have features in LMDE6, there is almost certainly no rush to upgrade. Take your time.
Make backups. Test backups. Play games. Work. Do things entirely unrelated to the distro.
You could even almost (aaalmost) completely forget about LMDE6 (but do keep an eye on the LM blog).
The Mint team haven't announced an EOL date for LMDE5 yet, but if past dates are anything to go by, it'll be at least 18 months before they pull the plug. Even then, LTS updates might still filter through from Debian proper.
[How many people will actually see this message and how many it actually applies to out of them might well include me and literally one other guy somewhere else on the planet, but if you're that one guy, breathe friend. No rush.]
- Debian 11 and thus LMDE 5 have a libvirt bug where libvirt doesn’t properly create config files for apparmor for virtual machines that are imported instead of created on the specific host. You have to recreate the vm definition from scratch, or disable apparmor to start it. Not fixed in Debian backports either.
  It’s a niche issue but I’ve been chomping at the bit for LMDE6 for some time.
  
  That sounds like one of the "especially must-have" features I was talking about. Maybe I was thinking about less serious things when I said it (gotta have that shiny new program that only works in 6 or whatever), but it still fits.
- I'm not super familiar with the goals of the mint project. But this is generally a bad approach to take with project development. Even if you plan on offering LTS, it is always preferable to have users on the most up to date version. Going through the pain of supporting multiple versions of commercial software at work has taught me that lesson the (very) hard way.
  
  To some extent I think they're thinking of people who are in the Windows/Mac situation of wanting a stable OS that doesn't require getting hands dirty (so to speak) every 5 minutes to do basic things, and who generally call in a relative or friend who knows what they're doing (and is almost certainly the person who installed Mint in the first place) when things really need changing.
  There's never more than two LMDEs active at any one time, so while they are giving themselves a little extra work, they're also managing the main Ubuntu-based Mint derivatives at the same time so they're bound to have some kind of streamlining at their side.
  As for 5-to-6 upgrades, they've provided an official tool that will work for most people and will require very little admin user interaction once it's off and running. A sensible sysadmin would like to have a backup anyway, just in case.
  My initial comment was aimed at the odd rare case like myself who isn't always up for sysadmin work (it's why I'm on Mint after all), or doesn't have the time. There's no immediate rush to use that official tool. Take your time. Make your backups, etc.
  If you want bleeding-edge rolling updates, Mint is not the distro for you (though LMDE is a little closer to that than regular Mint).
  Do they keep up with security updates and patches, though? Yes. Very much so.

Been using mint for a while on my main machine and I'm not keen on doing a reinstall, but the next time I do I'll definitely be looking at Debian edition.
- If you don't have Nvidia gpu, then LMDE is better. It is slightly snappier and boots slightly faster.
  
  Oh dang. It sucks to hear that my 10 year old GPU is still poorly supported.
  
  LMDE has proprietary driver repos afaik.

Oh boy, here I go distro-hopping again.
Just kidding - you can pry Slackware from my cold, dead hands.
- Why do you use slackware?
  
  It's more stable than Debian and more simple in design than Arch.
  It basically doesn't do anything, except run your hardware and software, and that's all an OS should do.
  
  Because it is predictable and doesn't suck.
- Challenge accepted
- Has the package manager improved? Can it automatically handle dependencies?
  
  Slackware works differently than other distros. After a default installation, dependency tracking is pointless because you install its entire repository up front.
  If you need something that isn't in the repository, you've got Slackbuilds that work just like Arch's AUR. Or you can use third party repos with their own package managers, semi-official tools with depedency checking, flatpaks or whatever else you want. The point is, how you manage your packages is your choice. The default package manager is just a helpful bash script.

Very excited to see this. After having been through the last few Ubuntu versions, they have made some very frustrating decisions that have made the system management side a real pain.

Can anyone tell me if the Debian Testing branch has been stable? I like Debian, and I like rolling release to be more up to date, so I was considering swapping from Fedora.
- Either use Stable or Unstable. Testing is actually the most unstable of the three branches, due to how Debian works:
  Updated packages are first introduced into Experimental, then into Unstable when they actually build and run. So Unstable is equivalent to Arch's main branch.
  Then they automatically enter Testing after a few weeks without anyone reporting a critical bug.
  What this means: Testing is the only branch where the decision over what enters isn't made by a human.
  If someone notices critical bugs in Testing, the packages may be kicked out of Testing again until the bugs are fixed. So Testing is the only branch where packages can simply disappear when you run an update.
  It's also the most insecure branch: When a vulnerability is discovered, the packages in Stable are patched to close it. The packages in Unstable are updated to a new version that closes it. In Testing, the vulnerability stays until the new version eventually migrates down the line again after spending a while in Unstable.
  I've run Unstable for years. IMO it's a great rolling release distro with horrible branding.
  
  Thanks for the info! I know what you mean that unstable is similar to Arch, but I know Arch has like a 3 day period or something like that before it hits the default "stable" repo. Is Unstable similar to that, or do they just raw dog it?
- I use debian 12 unstable and it has been great. No issues so far.
- I ran 12 (testing) for the last year and the only issue I had was related to unsupported hardware with a newer laptop.

So I’m showi my my extreme age but I remember when Mint was born as a sort of windows-like Ubuntu for easy migration. Has it carved out a reason for existing for folks that don’t want a windows like experience?
- Their interface is familiar to Windows users but so is KDE and many things that aren’t GNOME. Primarily it is the flagship distro for Cinnamon, they put a lot of work into making the user experience seamless and their implementation of Cinnamon especially is much better than other distros that ship it as an option. They also co-founded MATE when GNOME 3 came out and have supported that forever.
  Main thing for me is extremely sane defaults, just enough automation to simplify some things without it getting in the way, just enough customization without it being overwhelming or an eyesore (I hate KDE context menus). It’s been very good for getting out of the way so I can focus, I appreciate that it doesn’t have a ton of flying, shiny objects all over the place but still looks good, and I don’t have to add a ton of extensions to get it the way I like.
  
  This. Mint is the only distro I've found where I've truly never needed the CLI if I didn't feel like using it.
- It’s just a generally solid, stable, and easy to use distro. I use EndeavourOS nowadays, but when I was first getting started Mint was what I always returned to after spats of distro hopping. As far as it’s primary DE, Cinnamon, it’s less “windows like” and more “not gnome like”. Every DE that isn’t gnome could be called “windows like” in my experience.
  
  More like Cinnamon being GNOME 2.5
  Since GNOME 3 changed everything for better or worse.

I wonder if they'll ever ditch Ubuntu and release a version based on Debian Sid.
- Not Sid, but that's exactly that Mint LMDE is. Rather than being built on top of Ubuntu, it's built on top of Debian

I just installed it in a VM to check it out, as I'm not a Cinnamon guy usually, and I really like it! I need to try it out on metal and see how it handles games, but so far I'm really happy.

Would this be analogous to Endeavor OS for Arch?
- Yes. The Mint team have done all the work that you normally would have to with Debian, to give you a nice stable, fast and full featured desktop system.
  Plus they keep Cinnamon up to date over the years. Even though the Debian base will remain the same (apart from any security patches/important updates) you'll always have the latest Cinnamon desktop and utilities from Mint like Timeshift, Warpinator etc
  Btw Warpinator works like Airdrop. Install the app on your Android, pair to LMDE and you can easily send and receive files and photos between phone and desktop.
  
  How does warpinator compare to kde connect?
- I would say Mint adds more to Debian than EndeavourOS adds to Arch.
  For one thing, Mint has its own DE ( Cinnamon ). You can install this on other distros but it was made for Mint and it is the DE experience out-of-the-box on LMDE.

and also that being based on Debian LMDE is 100% community based.
At first I read it as "completely based" and wondered whether LMDE is also red pilled.
- When I heard LMDE was goated, I wondered if it was with or without the sauce.

Still no Wayland, right?
- Sadly, no :(
  
  Why is this important?
- Mint/Cinnamon will probably be the last adopters of Wayland but surely at this point they should be starting to test it?

Well, time to try it. Hopefully XFCE runs well; Cinnamon is not to my liking at all.

I'm excited to give it a try.

SteamOS is debian based right? does that mean LMDE will benefit from valve's commits in some ways mint wouldnt have otherwise?
- SteamOS 1 and 2 was Debian based, the new one is arch based
- I thought at least on steamdeck it is more arch based https://www.makeuseof.com/key-differences-steamos-and-arch-linux/

This is 👍 👌 👍

so what would be the difference between LMDE and Debian with cinnamon DE
- Desktop Theming: LMDE is gonna look like Mint out of the box, while Debian is gonna look like this
  Mint Software repositories and Mint's System tools, like Mint Install or Mint Update, on LMDE
  LMDE is installed with Calamares, which is a little more user friendly than Debian's installer
  If you're an advanced user there's no big difference overall, but for a new user LMDE is gonna be a little easier to approach
- Literally the only difference is that regular Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and LMDE is based on Debian.
  So LM will use the Ubuntu repo and any additions to the code Ubuntu made, whereas LMDE will use the Debian repos and their code.
  At the moment LMDE actually has a newer kernel (6) than LM (5) and newer apps, but that will change with the next version of Linux Mint when it should catch up.
  And finally, LMDE is also available in 32bit as well as 64bit, whereas LM is 64bit only.
  
  Did not answer the question.

The question everyone is thinking, but no one will ask: will I be able to install Snap packages on it? Hahahhaha kidding.
I've been eagerly awaiting this release, and will likely replace my OpenSuse with this. I really like OpenSuse, but have some software needs that are only available on dep packages.
- Hahahaha...good one! 😂
  That's a good point - that's the same reason I also prefer to use a Debian based distro, all non repo software is most likely going to be available as a deb.

I tried the beta and liked it. The only issue I ran into was that the MozillaVPN app wasn't working on debian.
I also had not seen much progress on the Debian version of the app from what I found. I could be wrong as that was my first dip into Debian.
Mullvad is available and I might switch to that at a later time when the motivation strikes me.
I prefer the idea of community driven projects though.
- Mullvad works fine on both LMDE and stock mint fwiw

I would've jumped on this instantly, but I finally landed on a Min21 configuration that works well. New laptop => new hardware => need new nvidia driver => need new kernel.
Which kernel does LMDE currently ship with?
- 6.1 like Debian 12.
  
  I'll probably give it a go, then, if I need to reinstall.

Can someone explain to me how it differs from regular Debian Cinnamon? Is it as secure, with updates and all?
- Underneath it's exactly the same and you will get all the same security updates. However Debian will not release any further updates to the Cinnamon desktop until Debian 13. And they don't theme it, your get the basic grey version m
  Linux Mint Debian Edition will include the latest Cinnamon desktop and it will be continually updated by the Mint team because they are the creators of the Cinnamon desktop. So you'll likely have a better version of cinnamon on LMDE.
  Plus they theme it out of the box. And LMDE includes other Mint utilities like Warpinator and Timeshift. These will also get updated sooner than plain Debian.
  And of course you are more likely to get support on Linux Mint compared to Debian
  
  Nice, thanks for the explanation!
  I did have really good experiences with LM, notably
  timeshift backups
  unobtrusive updates
  fully automatic LUKS unlock and mount
  But it broke for me. Also it wasnt fully Ubuntu, which was a hassle too.

I wonder if I can install this on my late 2011 macbook pro...
- Pretty sure you can install it on any Intel based MacBook.
  
  Definitely. I'm assuming that it's a 64bit CPU, but even if it's 32bit they'll have that too

LMDE 6 still has a 32-bit version, probably the last kek

How's the performance / system requirements compared to Debian 12 with xfce? I'm on pretty old hardware and lower system requirements was why I installed Debian over Ubuntu. I don't see CPU mentioned in the requirements on that link, just RAM and disk space
- Requirements using the standard Cinnamon desktop are 2GB RAM minimum and 20GB disk space. On idle LMDE uses about 900mb RAM without swap. If RAM use increases it will use the swap.
  It's definitely not as light as XFCE so your install will be lighter by quite a bit.

Which Debian version is it based on?
- Debian 12. Mentioned in the article/blog
  
  Thanks! So much for my reading skills/attention span 😂
  
  And in the post

Now if it had
wayland support
immutable variant
It maaay be a nice option.
- Neither of those features are 100% production ready, even on the most cutting edge system.
  Even if you are running KDE or GNOME, chances are your apps would still require X.
  Why would you want immutable? That would be for either containers or embedded, none of which is Linux Mint's use case.
  If you're looking to explore these cutting-edge features, Linux Mint is not for you.
  
  Xwayland
  Rpm-ostree works perfectly well for many users. Flatpak is not production ready, but if you do background updates and not that often, you can totally just layer everything you want.
  Immutable is not cutting edge, is simply a traced, resettable, secure system. You can reset it with one command. But you can also install as many native packages as you want, simply that updating will take a bit longer then. But updates are done in the background, I dont know if by default, but there is a systemd service.
- "LMDE would be nicer if it was Fedora Silverblue"
- I'm not a fan of the immutable distro and I think it goes against the LM philosophy. The user should always have full control over their system.
  They are looking at Wayland but for now X works better and with more applications. Reliability is a top priority for LM so they won't just change to Wayland and have users systems break.
  I'm sure in a few years they'll have Wayland
  
  You have a lot of control over an immutable system. Linux mint is the noob distro, at least for loots of people. I dont think Cinnamon is really a poweruser desktop, I would see KDE here

This begs the question: what sketchy stuff does Linux Mint Normal Edition doing?

Just fucking use debian lmao.
- 😂 yeah I hear you but I want the up to date Cinnamon desktop and I like how Mint has configured the system.
- You might as well tell others to just use windows at this point.
  Edit: Yeah sorry, my point is that freedom is what makes linux linux. I don't really think you have ever used linux mint before and I don't want to sound like a white knight for linux mint but you should atleast be a little less condenscending towards a distro that has been among the top distro for beginners to switch and has fulfilled the role of a full OS without ever needing for many like me to dig too deep into linux configs and stuff. Mint's development towards debian is only a good thing for many users like me because it preserves the future in case of a ubuntu upstream issue, besides freedom is the spirit of linux.
- They're beating around the bush at this point 😅

122 comments