1w ago

‘A spectacle to horrify the world’: what the papers say about Trump and Vance’s meeting with Zelenskyy

www.theguardian.com ‘A spectacle to horrify the world’: what the papers say about Trump and Vance’s meeting with Zelenskyy

The shocking and unprecedented scenes in the Oval Office dominate UK front pages today, with the papers united in horror

I've still not seen the video, and I see no reason to. But it's worth noting that when the media unite around how shitty something is, it might be shitty.

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OK, I've now seen the video. And what the actual fuck? "You don't have the cards" coming from a guy who bankrupts casinos is ... I mean, I don't have words. This was an utter disgrace and not any show of power. It was a dressing-down of someone trying to protect his country.
This is a fucking embarrassment. This is a man of dim intellect trying to tell a foreign head of state why he should just cede authority to a larger power without considering that maybe Ukraine doesn't want to be part of a reconstituted Soviet Union.
- Zelenskyy knows damn well he can't trust Russia to uphold their side of the bargain. Taking this deal would only grant them a short reprieve while Russia recovers their strength and comes back to finish the job. Ukraine is in a terrible position(and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia ended forcing them to reinstall Viktor Yanukovych), but, as long as Ukraine has the will to fight, they should do what they feel is best. If they choose to fight a losing war to make it as painful as possible for the Russians rather than sign a "peace" negotiated by two hostile powers in which Ukraine was not even consulted, that is their right.
  Trump and Vance are a fucking disgrace. They were trying to discredit Zelenskyy in the eyes of Ukraine and the world. It's important to remember that this is one of the least ambiguous conflicts in recent years. Russia literally declared a war of conquest using one of the flimsiest casus bellis ever. And here comes this asshole Trump, who is like "maybe we should try to do that might makes right stuff". Now Canada, Mexico, and Greenland are getting threatened with invasion and forcible annexation. That's why Ukraine must be supported if they choose to continue fighting; not only are they the unambiguous victim in the conflict, but the more painful things get for Russia, the less likely they will be able to wage further wars in the short term, and maybe it might make belligerent countries think twice about stealing land and subjugating people they have no right to.
  
  None of this is existential for russia. It's all in putin's scrambled mind. Even if russia gets pushed completely out of Ukraine including Crimea; even if Ukraine joins NATO and there are US airbases and nukes every mile along the Ukrainian border with russia, none of it is existential. NATO exists as a response to russian aggression and imperialism, not to invade or defeat russia. It's only russia creating the false equivalence between "you won't let us invade other countries" and "you want to invade us". If russia could be trusted not to invade then NATO wouldn't be needed at all.
  
  Do not protect Nazis. I'm removing your comment, regardless of how well-reasoned you believe it to be. It's not.
  ETA: Shit, this is not my community and I can take no action. I expect the admins to address this shortly after reporting it. Don't do this on Beehaw.
  
  If you cannot be fucked to spell his name correctly, why should anyone listen to the rest of your bluster into the wind?
- It's a mob shakedown by an incompetent, myopic, known to be liar and his minion. Repeating yourself, raising your voice, and latching onto half-ideas to push your brand -- "intimidating" and bluffing to force the deal only works if you had any respect in the first place.
  Also, it feels like Vance's PR team told him he's being overshadowed by Trump in the media so he should make a big show to boost his ratings. Absolute clowns.

14 comments