4w ago

Carney orders review of F-35 fighter jet purchase from U.S.’s Lockheed Martin

www.ctvnews.ca

Prime Minister Mark Carney has asked for a review of Canada’s plan to purchase a fleet of F-35 fighter jets.

The deal with Lockheed Martin and the U.S. government is for 88 planes at a cost of about US$85 million each.

A spokesperson for Defence Minister Bill Blair said Carney has asked Blair to look into whether the F-35 contract is the best investment for Canada, or if there are better options.

“We need to do our homework given the changing environment, and make sure that the contract in its current form is in the best interests of Canadians and the Canadian Armed Forces,” Blair’s press secretary Laurent de Casanove said.

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4w ago

Carney orders review of F-35 fighter jet purchase from U.S.’s Lockheed Martin

www.ctvnews.ca /politics/article/carney-orders-review-of-f-35-fighter-jet-purchase-from-uss-lockheed-martin/

82 comments

Fuck yeah! Canada will vote with its dollar!

Heck yeah. Go Carney.
With love from Portugal. 🇵🇹🤝🇨🇦
- Welcome to the carnival!
  or
  CARNAGE!

Seems stupid to buy defense resources from a country that could become hostile. Do any European companies have anything to offer? I get that GOS and a lot of resources are still probably going to come from the USA but right now, the less the better.
- It also seems stupid to keep importing on a mass scale the culture, news, entertainment, media, and media platforms of a country that wants to invade Canada. Yet here we are.
  
  I would be thrilled if all American social media was blocked 100%. Sweep the trolls back into their caves.
  
  List of Canadian Alternatives to American owned media pretending to be Canadian
  
  I mean to be fair this hostility is being perpetrated by one man and just in the past 2 months. Zero of those things would change in that short amount of time.
- The Swedish Saab Gripen would be a good choice. It would include assembly and maintenance in Canada.
  https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/focus-what-could-be-the-option-for-canada-to-replace-f-35-fighter-jet-acquisition-after-political-tensions-with-us
  
  I read somewhere they operate with a licensed American engine, and that some European nations are trying to replace it with a non-American one.... Yeah, it's a development of an F-18 engine.

Can I interest you in a Eurofighter Typhoon?
- Me personally? I'd love to say yes, but I'm a bit skint atm.....could I get it on IOU?
  
  Okay, make some space in the drive and I'll bring it over later.
- Tbf. The F35 owns the sky. The Typhoon wins in a dog fight, but the way the F35 operates it eliminates the threat long before the dog fight. I would love for a European fifth generation replacing the F35 tho'
  
  Only if the F-35 is fully operational. $2 trillion later and the damn thing is still a maintenance pig.
  
  Dogfights aren't a thing anymore in modern aviation. There's a reason it was barely considered in the procurement process that led to the F-35 acquisition. Sure hope other countries step up to the plate to build viable exportable alternatives to the F-35.

There was the "kill switch" rumour recently that trump (any president) can remotely disable any/all f35s they wanted to
It's probably not true, but the truth is just as disasterous for foreign buyers.
A shutdown of parts out of US does essentially the same and is much easier to do on a whim and withhold the solution in negotiations.
People weren't just buying US because "we're the best" it's because we could be relied on for support, because no one fucksnwith the US military industrial complex
trump is tho, and that's a hell of a lot more dangerous for a politician than pissing off day traders
- They require maintenance in the US. How well would that work if the US was invading us?
  
  ...
  Yes, that is the point I am making, and the argument your government is making for canceling the contract.
  If trump were to cut off logistical support for that or any other whim, they would have to be mothballed.
  
  They don't give any access to the stealth tech either, as far as I understand

Something we can train on and maintain within our borders please.

Canada could do the funniest thing rn by buying J-35s at half the price.
- It would be funny, but damn I would not want to buy military equipment from china
  
  China is Canada's second biggest trade partner, unless they're planning to follow America to war with China, what's the problem? Especially because it's for a military that was designed for the singular purpose of defending itself from an American invasion over the last 70 years.
  
  USA: We want to annex Canada. We are not joking
  Canadians: Ooh China is very scary.
- Yeah, those are definitely safe from tampering.
  
  The purpose of buying jets from someone other than America is to reduce America's influence over Canada, why would China sabotage that?
  Edit: Why is this controversial? Do you think America tampers with the weapons we send to Taiwan?

He's keeping up decorum but yeah these jets are done. You can't buy military equipment from an enemy and the jets would have to be serviced in the USA over their lifetime.

maybe don't rely on fighter jets than can possibly be disabled remotely by someone talking about invading you

Messing with the military industrial complex is not the smartest move for Trump. All that will do is turn the military against him.

It always seemed strange that Canada would agree (how much arm twisting?) to buy a plane that won't work well in our Arctic. We are committed to buying 16 jets but it would probably be better to buy the rest elsewhere or put our money into homegrown solutions. Maybe drones or other machines.
- Excuse me sir, may I interest you in Gripen? Cold weather tested, fascist free, and oh so stylish. Book your test flight today!
- Maybe we should be looking at what we need for city close quarters defenses and guerilla fighting.
  
  If they do plan on invading, it will probably involve them coming from the North as well, and not just the South-- especially if they were to occupy Greenland first.

Lockheed Martin — ”We specialize in destroying the lives of brown people, come fly with us”

Prime Minister Carney, I have several better solutions. Cancel the F-35 and examine the Saab JAS-39 Gripen, Dassault Rafael, or the Eurofighter Typhoon.

I’m glad you’re doing this, but ultimately sad because love is irrational and I love the F-35.

For the $70 billion it would apparently cost in total to have these super fancy fighter jets, they could instead build a million new low-cost housing units and still have some money left over to work on inventing innovative air defence systems that aren't so expensive..
- 6 months ago I would have agreed with you. Unfortunately now we have to focus on saving Canada.
- They could also build a high speed rail from Toronto to Quebec, something the people could actually use.
  
  You're underestimating the size of $70 billion. It's more like high-speed rail to every major city in the country.

Gonna need a tariff...

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available. We've also already sunk enough money into the program to pay for the first 16 IIRC. This puts us in an awkward position, considering the possibility of degraded functionality of the F-35 without US assistance¹.
One of the worst ways to balloon military spending without getting anything in return is to keep changing your mind and hanging procurement up in endless indecision. Combined with the money already spent, I think we have to stick with F-35 for at least a bit.
I like the Gripen, and I'd suggest a switching some of our 88 fighters to Gripen's, but apparently Gripen's aren't that much cheaper.
Long term though, I think Canada should get in on GCAP, the Global Combat Air Program. It's not expected to deliver until 2035 if everything sticks to plan, so we'd still need the F-35 or Gripens I was mentioning in the interim.
¹ My understanding is that the "kill-switch" myth is pretty much that, a myth. There are software systems that depend on the US, apparently ALIS/ODIN, plus the MDF file updates. The possibility of a kill-switch can't be totally excluded IMO though, there is a lot of software in the F-35, and the US writes and patches it all. Even if there isn't a kill-switch, the US knows what vulnerabilities they are patching, and if any of them where exploitable, I'd imagine they'd know.
- Saab is offering to move part of the production to Canada, Trump might prevent US defense contractors from having facilities outside the US... So... Yeah
  
  This is one of the reasons I really liked the Saab offer. Supporting a domestic aerospace defence industry is probably a good strategic aim.
  GCAP would also offer a chance to foster our domestic aerospace industry.
  There are other combinations that achieve much the same though. FCAS (Future Combat Air System) is similar to GCAP, a joint France, Germany and Spain project, but it isn't scheduled to deliver until 2040.
  I am in no position to know what's "best", but it's undeniable that there are some good options. It's unfortunate though that there will be a cost to pay that we went with F-35 all those years ago. Still don't have a Canadian F-35 in the air.
  Another piece of trivia, that I really don't know if significant is that Sweden nearly joined GCAP. If we went with Gripen and GCAP, and Sweden rejoined GCAP there might be opportunities for long term partnerships. Then again I think there are similar opportunities with Eurofighter and FCAS.
- F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available
  As long as you can service and maintain them. Without a reliable supply chain for parts and servicing, they’re just expensive decorations.
  
  Absolutely. This is the true "kill switch". Turning off support for most US made weapons means killing them.
- F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available
  in west, but it may also be too advanced as root cause of its reliability and maintenance cost problems.
  sunk enough money into the program to pay for the first 16
  should demand refund for those 16.
  apparently Gripen’s aren’t that much cheaper.
  $85m vs $109m is a fair bit cheaper. Again, the maintenance costs and flight readiness metrics matter significantly.
  There are software systems that depend on the US, apparently ALIS/ODIN, plus the MDF file updates.
  We don't need to focus on whether there is a "mid air kill switch or not", when we know there is a "make this a paper weight switch". Naive or disingenuous of you to say "if Lockheed finds a kill switch, they would surely patch it out"
- The key thing you're missing here is that the programming of the ECM pod, the thing that makes the F-35 able to do what it does, the thing it's just an average 6th gen fighter without, is only done by US personnel.
  Even if you could make the entire plane locally, parts wise, the US will not ever give out the pod code. Ever.
  Because without it, the plane is worth less than nothing, it's a liability.
- Also, even without any malicious back doors it is still likely far easier to attack the software and electronic vulnerabilities of the aircraft as you said.

Canada. Doesn't. Need. Fighter. Jets.
- Maybe you should pay better attention to what is going on in the world right now.
  
  Is Russia going to invade Canada? 🙄
  I fucking hate how liberals have turned into NatSec war hawks and are demanding every country from Canada to Portugal buy more fucking fighter jets. Instead of wasting money on the MIC how about they invest in their people?

82 comments