2w ago

After 50 million miles, Waymos crash a lot less than human drivers

arstechnica.com

236 comments

Why are we still doing this? Just fucking invest in mass transit like metro, buses and metrobuses. Jesus
Also, Note that this is based on waymo's own assumptions, that's like believing a 5070 gives you 4090 performance...
- That doesn't solve the last mile problem, or transport for all the people who live outside of a few dense cities.
  
  Yes it does, if done properly. I have stops for four bus lines within walking distance. During peak hours, buses come once every 15 minutes. Trolleys in the city centre, every 10 minutes. Trams, every two minutes, and always packed. Most of the surrounding villages have bus stops. A lack of perspective is not an excuse.
  
  Well if YOU have a bus stop near you then everyone must! That's just science!
  
  If you build it they will come
  
  Because having a bus to pick up 7 people in a day is really efficient economically and environmentally...
  
  For sure. Just cruising around the countryside on the off chance that someone actually needs the bus that day. They haven't for the past few but they have to go shopping eventually.
  
  Much more so than having a car-centric infrastructure. If you start cherry-picking you'll of course find cases where a car would have been more efficient but public transportation needs to be understood as a whole.
  
  I'm not cherry picking Im just telling you my personal experience and the town I live in
  
  Yeah, all three of them.
  
  Uh, yes, actually. I know someone like you can't even fathom the possibility of a public transit system being well-built because you've been gaslit into believing that whatever happens in The West is the best humanity can offer, but we've got 80 bus and trolley lines criss-crossing the city. As a guesstimate, three quarters of the city is within a 10-minute walk from a stop, and the elderly and disabled who can't walk benefit from the resulting reduction in traffic.
  
  And all the world is cities! There's noooooooooo other type of living. Your egocentric view of the world is going to carry you really far.
  
  Did you hallucinate that I said anything like it or something? Obviously not every situation is solved by the same concept. Dense city centres -- sidewalks, bike paths, trams, human-scale infrastructure. Suburban areas -- abolish Euclidean zoning, European-style grid streets, buses, local light rail services. Inter-city transit -- high-speed rail. Smaller villages and towns -- regional rail. It's an issue that most of the developed world has solved.
  Public transit is not supposed to replace cars altogether, but give people another choice. A transit system that is built well, operated well, and cheap, will reduce the reliance on cars, and make the streets safer for people or services that have to use cars.
  
  Public transport can, and does work in rural areas too.
  
  "most of the surrounding villages"
  
  I live on a 40mph road with no sidewalk or shoulder. That is connected to a 45mph road with no sidewalk or shoulder. My nearest bus stop is 3.2 miles away.
  I'm not even that far out, I can drive to a major city downtown in 30 minutes.
  That's great that you have all this infrastructure around you, but not everyone does. Like you said, a lack of perspective is not an excuse.
  
  That's not out of necessity. It's a design decision. You could have one nearby with the right elected officials and public effort. You also chose where to live, with the ability to know where existing stops are. If you chose the live away from a bus stop or other public transport then that's on you.
  
  So fuck everyone who can't afford to, or doesn't want to, live in the city?
  I can, do, and will vote for officials that want to expand public transit. I also appreciate other efforts being taken, because I don't let perfect be the enemy of the good, and I recognize that no one solution works for everyone.
  
  So fuck everyone who can't afford to, or doesn't want to, live in the city?
  What the hell? Were did you pull that from my comment?
  We need to work to improve public transport everywhere. Switzerland can have timely consistent trains to tiny villages in the fucking alps. We can have it here. We need to push for it though.
  People saying "it doesn't work for me right now so shut up" are actively harmful to the discussion. They're choosing to be in a position where it doesn't work at all (though it doesn't work well for almost anyone in America outside of DC and NYC). I'm not saying "fuck them" I'm saying "your opinion is not relevant if it's only complaining about doing better because it's bad for you right now."
  Its like saying we shouldn't go to the moon because it's hard right now, or we shouldn't try to develop nuclear fusion technology because it's hard right now. I don't care if it's hard right now. We're discussing what could/should be.
  
  Here's a summary of this thread:
  Guy 1 - why is anyone doing waymo when there's public transit
  Guy 2 - last mile problem
  Guy 3 - it works great for me in the city surrounded by bus stops, no last mile problem
  Me - it doesn't work great for me barely outside the city. (My point being that it'll take a lot to get public transit to within 1 mile of where I am, let alone to someone even further from the city)
  You - that's your own fault so stop complaining
  Me - so fuck me and everyone farther out than me apparently.
  That's how we got here. I simply stated my situation as it relates to public transit, and you tell me it's just my own fault and I should shut up.
  We have a long way to go to get ubiquitous public transit in America. I doubt we will ever get there. It makes sense to consider other options as well.
  I'm saying we should go to the moon AND develop nuclear fusion.
  You want to know what's harmful to discussion? Pricks like you telling people that their opinion is irrelevant.
  
  I think you misunderstood most of what doesn't agree with you (purposefully or not).
  Waymo is an investment.
  So is public transport.
  One is more effective and better for more people.
  Why are we investing in Waymo?
  You want to know what's harmful to discussion? Pricks like you telling people that their opinion is irrelevant.
  Your opinion about right now is irrelevant to the discussion of how things should be. It is not irrelevant in a discussion about right now, only this one. Every time public transport is discussed someone like you feels the need to say "it doesn't work FOR ME (currently)!" OK... I'm not sure why we needed to know that. No one said it was great for everyone right now so you didn't add anything to the discussion. It only is a distraction from actually trying to fix things for you. Sometimes this is on purpose and sometimes it isn't. Either way, it's harmful not helpful.
  
  Someone mentioned the last mile problem, and someone else responded as if it doesn't exist based purely on their own situation (right now). I'm pointing out that it does exist with my situation as an example (right now).
  That's all. Should we pretend like there's no last mile problem?
  Maybe in some ideal world, the last mile problem could be solved purely with public transit. We don't live in that world. Investing as of we live in an ideal world is foolish.
  If one approach is effective for more people, that's great, but shouldn't we also invest in solutions that fill the gap?