'Top secret' Hamas documents show that terrorists intentionally targeted elementary schools and a youth center

Did they really though, or is this just propaganda?
- I wouldn’t trust anything “found” by Israeli intelligence. Having said that, according to article, these are plans for:
  Hamas units to surround and infiltrate villages and target places where civilians, including children, gather.
  Which is reasonably close to what happened. Given how direct and quick the strike was, it’s reasonable to assume that plans of that nature exist.
  Then again, October 7th was a a Saturday and a holiday and Hamas attacked early in the morning. If they wanted to kidnap kids, it wouldn’t make sense to target schools.
  TLDR: I dunno. Maybe.
  
  Other officials in their leadership said they were confused about the timing.
  The attack was also the 50th anniversary, to the day, of the Yom Kippur war.
- People trusting the IDF in 2023 is something I'll never understand.
  Their kneejerk reaction has always been to claim theyre the victim and their actions are 100% justified.
  So now, even when it might be true, there's no way I'd ever trust their word on it.
  They're like real life "boy that cried wolf".
  
  It's no coincidence the IDF trains US cops.
- At this point anything Israel “finds” just seems to justify the genocide that really seems to be happening.
- No they absolutely keep their top secret plans printed on hundreds of fliers detailing the atrocities they plan to commit, just in case they’re captured so the whole world learns their “secret” plans that they printed at Kinkos and becomes even more enraged and hits their civilians harder. It’s definitively how real war is done in real life, but I mean obviously by mindless monsters not worthy of the land they’ve continually been forced out of because they’re rabid babykilling Islamic animals hellbent on an antisemitic hell crusade and this map of elementary schools we found totally proves it!
  (Yeah, it’s probably propaganda. Israel is about to/is doing genocide in the spotlight and they need justification)
  
  I dunno.
  News has this ... Hamas practised in plain sight, posting video of mock attack weeks before border breach.
- Unlike Hamas who is always honest
  
  All people here defending Palestine, and denouncing Israel, but never denouncing Hamas. They implicitly are terrorist apologists. No wonder, since a lot of people here seem to be staunch leftists
- Por que no los dos? Nothing can justify an excessive response. Murdering children on purpose can't justify more children being murdered.
  
  If both parties are both acting in good faith, but Israel has been doing nothing but making excuses for its wholesale genocide. Their actions make their credibility suspect.
- It can be both. When your goal is hostages, it makes sense to take the most vulnerable. Children are easier to take and aren’t likely to fight back.
  Edit: Free Palestine 🇵🇸
  
  Fuck Hamas and all the leftists terrorist apologists
  
  It's fascinating that you felt the need to edit your comment because just addressing the facts in the present case wasn't enough. Even though the facts might be true and despicable, you still need to make it clear what side you're on, you can't just say what you think is true.

I call bullshit. Carrying around "top secret" plans conveniently printed out, and the medics happen to find them in perfect condition in the middle of a warzone.
- The article literally says that the plans match the tactics and movements seen/recorded in the raid of this kibbutz and others. Dumb for them to bring the documents with? Yes. Still the exact way it happened? Also yes.
  
  Dude, someone could just write the plans after the attack happened so they matched what happened...
- You know it's fairly predictable that some would be in denial.
  Things happen, and the possibility that someone would take battle plans into battle is pretty high considering the stupidity of most people.
  
  Following your reasoning, it is also very likely this is just Israeli propaganda.
  
  People are upvoting the denials and distractions here very aggressively, people are jumping at any opportunity to defend Hamas.

The documents were found on the bodies of Hamas terrorists by Israeli first responders and shared with NBC News.
Those documents - one, two - are remarkably unspoiled for what they supposedly went through: printed and distributed by a leader, handed over to the terrorists, reviewed (probably multiple times), stuck in a backpack or pocket, brought into an Israeli area, maybe referred to while there, in at least one firefight / battle, recovered from the bodies, passed around by Israeli first responders, then handed over to NBC.
All that, and not a speck of dirt or drop of blood? And the terrorists must have handled them very gently, because aside from one bent-over corner, there isn't a single crease to be seen - not even the corner where the plans were stapled together has been flattened, just gently held open. Remarkably pristine, those Hamas terrorists, even during infiltration, battle, and death.
- Hey, wait a minute... What are you trying to say?? Are you questioning the authenticity of this discovery??
  
  I'm complimenting them and their mothers on how well they were raised, to take such good care of their possessions. Even while they're running, fighting, and dying, they really managed to keep those documents in tip-top shape - that takes real dedication, and shows their mothers raised them properly.
- Also obviously everyone takes TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS to the front lines.
  
  As we all know, bathrooms are the correct place for your top secret government documents
  
  yeah nobody gives a shit about keeping secrets secret, you must be new to... reality. of course they're going to bring a map with them—if anybody tried telling them not to, they're dumbasses.
- If the Israelis were faking these documents, why didn't they add some dust and creases?
  These look just like a printout I kept in my side pocket all day.
  
  In your everyday activities, are you running, crouching, pressing yourself against the side of a building, maybe lying down? Are you routinely flinging yourself out of the line of fire? It's 80°F in Israel today, they've been running and fighting, probably had to look at the map once or twice and yet there's no sign of sweaty fingers that have handled the documents? I'm sure they stopped in the middle of their infiltration, too, to wash their hands.
- You seem to be implying you think this is faked because it doesn't comply with how you expect the documents to look. It took you less than a couple hours since this was posted to think this conspiracy theory up. If these documents were faked, don't you think the Israeli intelligence community would also have considered the same issues you raised and properly dirtied them to make sure they had the necessary dirt and blood to meet your specific definition of 'authentic'? The ultimate implication here is that you think you have thunk up a gotcha in a few hours that Israeli Intelligence were incapable of thinking up. That's very arrogant.

Irrelevant. Let's assume that Hamas did indeed target schools, hospitals, etc. That's awful, but it doesn't justify what Israel is and has been doing to the Palestinian people. Two wrongs don't make a right, it just makes more wrong.
- Why can't we agree someone did something horrible without bringing whataboitisms into it?
  
  whataboitism is when you refer to a completely unrelated issue.
  Example:
  "Why did you hit him?"
  "Well, Johnny over there hit his brother two years ago!" - unrelated, whataboitism.
  "He stabbed me, stole my wallet, and tried to run away" - a normal explanation, even though it is too refers to an action of a different person.
  With this easy guide you too will be able to understand complex topics in no time
  
  Nobody is saying what Hamas did was acceptable, but a lot of people like you will say any stupid bullshit to distract people from talking about ongoing war crimes being committed by our allies.
- Nobody suggested anything justified anything, and nobody wants you to make an assumption. Here's hard evidence of the thing you don't believe, and you're trying to distract from it with an unrelated point.
  
  IDF lies all the time. This could be real. But you'd be a fool to just believe them.
  
  Israel is committing war crimes and your head is lodged firmly in your buttocks.

Man. This is awful.
Don't forget about ukraine, though. Russians are literally stealing kids, and have legit torture chambers for civilians.
Dons tinfoil hat The whole Hamas attack makes me think that it is a ploy to take focus off the Ukrainian war, given the backing by Iran, a close ally of Russia. It also serves mutlipe objectives of the perpetrating countries
- Dons tinfoil hat
  Along as we have that on....
  .... I've been reading all about all this detailed intelligence that Hamas had on the inner workings of the Israeli military around Gaza. Like, they knew exactly which unmarked installations were military. And they knew that if they took out the cell towers, it would cripple their communication at the border....
  .... which is the kind of key operational information that Israel would only share with its very close, key allies....
  .... the closest and key-est of which was run by someone who is under indictment for mishandling classified intel, and quite possibly selling some of it....
  There's no way Donald Trump willingly sold Israel's secrets to Hamas -- I don't think he's even that dumb -- but it is plausible that he sold them to the Russians, and then they mysteriously "leaked" to Hamas, somehow. Or maybe he sold them to the Saudis, who don't really like Hamas but maybe there is a Hamas sympathizer there who took the documents.
  And an even worse thought is that he didn't sell them at all, but willingly gave them to Putin out of friendship, or showed them to some random at Mar-A-Lago who happened to be a Hamas spy with cameras in his eyeglasses.
  It reads like bad fan fiction, but so much of modern US politics does these days.
  
  still in tinfoil hat mode...
  but it is plausible that he sold them to the Russians
  More that he bragged about the info to somebody in Russia who was helping him out with his campaign, and that somebody went to Putin saying "you'll never believe what that idiot showed me." And then Russia thought "hey, that'll distract from all the other shit we do!" Ukraine included, but that's really not the end of it.
  For what it's worth, they've been planning the attack for a long time. And Iran was also a big supporter.
- It has been suggested that Trump showed off Iron Dome info to Russian nationals. Not much evidence of that, but it would explain a lot.

Here's an example of the top secret document: https://i.imgur.com/PpALNhj.jpg
This wasn't created in 10 minutes. How did Israel not know of the attack beforehand?
- Why do you think that took longer than 5 minutes to type?
  And why aren't you questioning why a pristine freshly printed copy was discovered on the bodies of dead fighter?
  You don't think there'd be a single dirt mark or blood stain?
  
  It's suspicious, but not even remotely proof of falsity or grounds for dismissing it outright. That's just sloppy motivated thinking on your part.
  
  it doesn't look "pristine" or "fresh" to me. I don't know why it would be surprising that there aren't dirt or blood stains in them. Most pockets don't get dirt and blood stains all over them in war, some just stay closed. If a soldier has 20 pockets and a bullet goes through one of them, that's usually it, the other 19 are usually safe. Not to mention packs.
  The map looks folded up and kinda wrinkled. That makes more than enough sense for a map than "oh yeah, make sure you smear blood and dirt all over it to prove it was taken off a body!"
  there's nothing remotely suspicious about this, you people are just desperate to believe what a known terrorist organization tells you.

Oh wow, what a coincidence finding such great quality paper with no tears, no blood, nothing just casually on top of a dead Hamas fighter and a TOP SECRET one as well!
Sadly with the all these unverified claims by Israel these past few days, I’m not sure if this is any different.

Over the top as usual. I do hope people won't forget all these BS.
Come on, the "beheading babies" joke is just sooooo isreali in the over-the-topping to justify anything.

https://lemmy.world/post/6782180
Repost? Edit: no, my bad
- I am not subscribed to that community, I'm based on kbin, I saw this elsewhere.
  
  Oh, fair enough. I conflated "News" and "World News" to be the same community.

That is not too surprising knowing Hamas.
- it seems to have surprised a lot of people here into enough cognitive dissonance to say it's impossible.