Unfortunately we have those people here too. But yeah, the fact that like 30% of people here won't go full chud against vegans is an improvement

Welcome, and sorry for the same kinds of comments made by supposed comrades in this thread

You should post more

!vegan@hexbear.net welcomes u!

How do you know someone's a carnist? Don't worry, they'll tell you

I'm starting to think the problem for a lot of people is that they just flat out don't know how to cook vegetarian/vegan dishes.

I'm thinking a lot of them are imaging some kind of hypothetical "cooked to perfection" meat dish with lots of spices and sauce vs like...cold, uncooked beans straight out of the can.

I'm not vegan, but like...it isn't hard to prepare a nice tasting vegan meal, going vegan doesn't mean a person has to live a spartan culinary existence where food is for bland sustenance and nothing else.

I cant really empathize with animals like how i can people. I hit possums with my car on the way to work all the time (once a month or so). Its unavoidable because they charge into the road and its too windy to move out of the way usually.

If i hit even one person id never live with the guilt and quit my job. Its unfair to expect 1 possum to equal 1 human. I understand you dont expect that. However, how many possums would i have to hit before it was enough for me to care much? It would have to be like when the cicadas come out - piles and piles of them for miles. I just value my husband having nice things more than the lives of those rodents, even though i like rodents a lot.

So the meat industry is basically a giant concentration camp of suffering, but im unsure if the suffering outweighs all the workers it employs, or evsn ths fact that they taste good.

At the same time, their suffering has value. Im excited for clone meat and i eat a lot of vegetables. It could easilly be that i cant empathize with them because of class consiousness similar to poor roman citizens not caring about the plight of slaves.

So, if veganism benefitted my class id be more enthusiastic in becoming a vegetarian instead of just using meat in moderation. It would have to be something about how me not eating meat or doing local activism for animals helps. I cant change society and me not buying meat wont actually help animals.

For example, my local activism was beneficial to people like me because it gave them a support network and community.

this will cause the trolley to explode, contaminating the nearby hummus fields

Honestly this thread is better then most, but I suspect Hexbear has a higher concentration of Vegans and people who support veganism. There's been plenty of "Lol VEgAn BAd" post on the regular meme and shitposting lemmies, and they're getting more popular with the influx of chuds from Reddit.

Are they blocked from my instance or am I too late? I can't seem to find any comment but support for pig life

But, that does not mean that veganism is an invalid movement. Far from it. It simply means that the onus to become vegan is because it empowers a social movement that can end this horrific industry, rather than because of a individualistic consumer choice.

This is why I have a hard time morally judging my friends and family for not being vegan, but are vegan myself. Veganism is a political position, and I treat it similarly to the people I care about being . I should correct them when I can, but they are not individually terrible people for having the wrong political opinions (and, to a degree, behavior).

so much this!! it’s odd so many leftists don’t seem to understand it

For this reason the only way we're going to get out of this mess is a technological solution (or society collapses to the point that we forget about animal husbandry)

But many vegans here have had very antisocialist views about how we must simply eat beans and need not improve food technology (re lab grown and plant meats, helping people with certain digestive disabilities) to increase adoption of veganism.

I mostly agree but think its strange to dismiss the individual part of it. Although a social movement is the goal being worked towards, I feel its a bit harmful to state the goal as 'global vegan movement' instead of 'stop exploiting animals' because that difference provides wiggle room to do harmful things if you don't expect it to affect the odds of the movement succeeding, which gets yourself thinking in unhelpful utilitarian terms. Easier to get intersectional-understanding benefits of connecting veganism to other issues, and be a better voice for that movement, when you're an abolitionist vegan who doesn't care if what you're doing might not be worthwhile according to an arbitrary metric.

The movement is of course the vitally necessary action to end the industry, but I'm also sick of carnist leftist friends excusing individual carnist actions because of it 'not really changing things', which I think is driving my thoughts here.

Time for the mods to hose us all down with tofu removedant again.

But if the train runs over those tasty tasty beans... how do you eat them?

Because the difference between anarchists and communists is one of strategy while the difference between vegans and bloodmouths is wanting to cause suffering for selfish reasons. It's not sectarian.

And no. If you're not following your ethics to the ultimate conclusion and still have a strain of "I deserve the exploits of others suffering" in you, then you're not actually a leftist.

because it makes you mad specifically

can someone explain why rentoids are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn't a real leftist, that should extend to rentoid users not saying we're not real leftists for owning an apartment building we inherited from our grandparents.

No because even if you're a communist who organizes, reads, and helps your fellow human, you are a reactionary akin to a liberal conservative if you eat that turkey thanksgiving dinner

Okay, I'm going to take the quoted bit as made up or deliberately exaggerated for my mental health.

The lemmyverse is not ready for the power of our vegan posters. We were barely ready.

This website is nominally anti-exploitation, even of animals. That was the upshot of the last vegan struggle session. We vegans do not need to be "contained", and carnists who have a problem with that can fuck all the way off.

“im a leftist so i can feel better than everyone else, my contrarianism is not satiated if my own contradictions are discussed!! how can i moralize materialism to fill the void in my soul if the morality makes me feel bad?”

sapience and sentience are not the same

I do not understand what point this is trying to make

Yes and? We can acknowledge that choosing what you can eat is a privilege, but those with that privilege should exercise it to minimize the suffering they cause in the world. "People go to bed hungry" isn't an adequate excuse for anyone with means to go vegan to choose to continue eating meat. This post has big "Well China creates more carbon pollution" energy.

It's important to be very sensitive to those people and their situation, but 99% of the people I have this conversation with are not those people, and use those people's existence as a trump card to avoid the conversation.

Not only that, they do the exact same thing with Indigenous people and their traditional food production and consumption practices.

Is it not true that their shelters have an absurdly high kill rate and that their founder believed that "pets" are better off dead then domesticated? These are the things I was told and would like them corrected if they are wrong.

i am thankful you are ideologically consistent about the intersection between veganism & treat discourse!!

the two topics are very intertwined imho

I have some squabbles with certain vegan arguments, mostly in the form of "you're correct but you're argument for it is bad" rather then "i think your argument is literally wrong"

literally my main criticism, the arguments sometimes are out of touch and dogmatic. But the vast majority have well thought out and consistent arguments, i think. I have rethought my stance on the subject many times due to this place, and i thank hexbear for that.

stop comparing animal husbandry to the atlantic slave trade though, thats just racist. I don't have another example off the top of my head but please do not use the slave trade one.