Firefox lost users during “failed” Yahoo search deal, says Mozilla CEO
Firefox lost users during “failed” Yahoo search deal, says Mozilla CEO
Baker's testimony shows that Mozilla depends so much on its deal with Google for revenue that "the biggest loser of a DOJ win in the Google case would be Mozilla."
People who use Firefox probably also have some gripes against Google's work, but I sure as fuck don't want anything to do with Yahoo
I'm fine with Firefox getting paid for the 2nd step of the install being changing the default search to DDG.
the duck is always getting better, while the goog is always getting shittier
Or just use LibreWolf. It's Firefox without the crap like Google search, Pocket or Sponsored sites. It also has significant privacy improvements compared to stock. I highly recommend it, it's been my daily driver for years.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Even when they have such a catchy jingle?
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
As a FF user: Mozilla has such a small market share now, they should experiment with search. Maybe don't make another "deal" with another ad based search engine, but invent your own decentralized search or mozilla search or whatever.
While I’d prefer the do that also, I think the issue is that Google pays them so much, they couldn’t afford to exist without it.
I mean, they could. They have been cutting costs in the wrong areas, though - those harder to replace if exgoogled. There's plenty of unnecessary fat in Mozilla as an organization. They have been doing lots of expensive (in terms of developer and testing resources) unneeded crap (apparently to support the appearance of relevancy, which is different from relevancy itself), they also don't need that many management people.
Let's please remember how Mozilla started. Yes, a browser back then and a browser now are two completely different things, but the imbalance in resources has always been there. It's just that now they are spreading resources where they shouldn't, to imitate Chrome in things secondary to a browser itself. They don't have the resources for that even with Google, and of course they won't otherwise.
Also supporting something like XULRunner or in general olden times Gecko would help, so that people could use FF's engine like they still do with Chromium and Webkit. That would increase the amount of people contributing in various ways.
That's how I see it, my humble opinion and all that.
It's pretty much their only revenue stream, considering they give all the software away and don't have ads in the browser.
That's the core of the trial though, right? That through these deals and other things Google does to stay dominant, they stifle the market for competition. Ie Edge, Chrome, and every other Chromium-based browser pushes Google to the end users and FF pushes some unfamiliar search platform, then there's an uphill, arguably unfair, battle for it to gain enough market share to be sustainable.
The only reason that would work is if they used user search data to sell to advertisers or show ads themselves. That's how Google search makes money, but it's antithetical to everything Mozilla is trying to market themselves as: a privacy oriented browser.
Just don’t use gogle.
“Google's core argument that its search engine wins default status due to its quality, not due to anticompetitive behaviors.”
Then why pay Apple 20 billion for default star?
The answer is because someone else will
The biggest risk for Google would be for Apple to enter the search market. It’s not hard, as proven by smaller players like DuckDuckGo, but it’s risky enough that Apple takes the 20B and consider it a good deal.
It’s still the best search engine in my experience. I’ve tried using bing and DuckDuckGo. They just don’t cut it and the ai stuff isn’t particular impressive to me. Google just understands the power of defaults
Have you tried Kagi? The search results seems to be a lot better than Google. I'm able to find what I need using search terms that would only returns spammy e-commerce results on Google. I'm on a trial account but so far I'm impressed and might consider getting a paid family subscription if my wife also like it.
why pay Apple 20 billion
Last time I googled something - it was free. /s
whats wrong with her hair
Asking the real questions.
Hunger games style
Boo fucking hoo. Mozilla isn't a saint and could benefit from a shake up as well. Mozilla's dependency on Google is dangerous for all of us.
The biggest loser if the DOJ doesn't win is literally everyone.
I will bite whatever bullet I have to if it means the end of Google hegemony.
Mozilla’s dependency on Google is dangerous for all of us.
But as you can see above, people leave when they don’t use Google
It’s a user issue not a developer one
Relying on monopolistic practices is an endorsement of monopoly as a practice, which is why Mozilla is no saint in this situation.
Mozilla's history is littered with poor business decisions that led them down the road to dependency on Google, they shouldn't be excused from them now that a legitimate court case is a threat to their existence.
Yahoo was a massive failed effort, but it hardly even compares to that haircut.
Google is def an L.
Yahoo a bigger L for sure.
But the biggest L is making fun of other peoples appearances.
Why don't you post a picture of yourself so we can make shitty comments about you?
The haircut literally looks like an L
Dude, blame your barber/stylist, grow it out, and get over it.
I get where you're coming from, but an intentional, statement haircut that you could easily change feels like it's ok to make a statement about, while I never would about someone's weight, height, etc.
If I posted a picture of myself and the hair was what people roasted me for, I'd be happy lol.
Chill
Another interesting comment Mozilla's takeaway from the experiment was that Firefox "users made it clear that they look for and want and expect Google.”
that's not really Mozilla's fault, users are too locked into Google and that's ultimately Google's fault.
Although I don't like at all that Mozilla is funded by Google and testified in their favor.
I saw it more as testifying about why they did what they did
Ultimately the message is still 'we had to use Google to survive, they have that much control over the space'
I'm of two minds. I use Firefox for privacy reasons and don't use Google if I can avoid it, but I have to admit that chrome was leagues better than other popular browsers at the time. It's no accident that they ran away with the market share even when IE was on everyone's computer by default.
Now they've gotten huge and their search engine has gone to shit. So it goes with infinite growth. I'm with Firefox for now, but I've learned the hard way not to totally trust any piece of software.
You can export EVERYTHING, Forward email, and have alternatives for every thing. It's incredibly easy to move away from Google.
It's a choice. There is no lock in.
I'm surpsied (but obviously shouldn't be) that that many potential users would instantly bounce off Firefox instead of changing the default search engine.
Honestly, the association with Yahoo just makes the platform look like a joke. Like, the first time you do a search and it pops up as Yahoo your first instinct is thinking you're using the wrong thing.
Nothing binds me to my browser besides my bookmarks which can be exported, my addons which are usually on both platforms and my history.
At home and on my phone I use FF and am mostly happy.
At work I choose Chrome because most websites work best in it.
It's not really that surprising that the average user wants the most popular search engine instead of yahoo (of all things) baked in, whatever your views on Google.
To be honest I find that hard to believe, but who knows? It's a crazy world after all.
I don't understand what's going on with her hair.
Kind of looks like she fell asleep watching a toddler, and it decided to cut her hair.
It's like a side mullet
Is this the same CEO who fired the entire documentation team and then gave herself a raise?
Is! Yahoo! still! a! thing!?!
Surprisingly, they're still in the top 10 most visited websites. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites
The CEO short-term logic makes sense: Yahoo search = Lower cost = Higher profit margin = Happy shareholders = Happy CEO
But she forgot that: Yahoo search = Shit
And then it happened
Really? All this over something that is very easily modified by the user?
Don't underestimate the combination of lazy and stupid.
Most people really don't care what browser or search engine they use as long as it gets the job done. I wouldn't call it lazy or stupid, it's just the reality of humans who have to pick and choose what they spend energy on. Yahoo search has been around a few years longer than Google and it sucked (and still sucks), that's why people decided it was worth going elsewhere. If you're going to try and wrench people out of their comfort zones, you've gotta put on a better first impression.
Yeah... And what about the 60 millions users lost since 2019? Will Mozilla find someone else to blame?
Where's Jeeves when we need him? I'd ask him but…
Google is starting to yahoo itself. The search is optimized to drive purchases and not actually finding what you want. That and delisting of some sites in the search results. Try finding a direct link to Trump's social media in a private window on Google vs on duckduckgo. Did he just break that gag order? Google doesn't want you to know!
If you have a few bucks, Kagi search is awesome and you can customize domain rankings.
Amazing that people would run away over that. People really are Luddites.
Luddites didn't oppose the technology itself, but the distribution of the profits it brought and were fighting for workers' rights.
Cool comic and cool site, thanks!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Terms of that deal required that if it were nullified, Verizon had to pay either "the full length of the contract, or alternately, just the difference between Yahoo's $375 million and whatever Mozilla got out of a new partner," ComputerWorld reported.
On top of revenue-sharing with Google, that payment drove up Mozilla's revenue, which in 2019 reflected "an 84 percent year-over-year increase" that was "easily the most the open source developer has booked in a single year, beating the existing record by more than a quarter of billion dollars," ComputerWorld reported.
Perhaps that bonus payment made switching back to Google even more attractive at a time when Baker told the court she "felt strongly that Yahoo was not delivering the search experience we needed and had contracted for."
This user decline wasn't entirely due to the Yahoo deal, Baker said, but Mozilla's takeaway from the experiment was that Firefox "users made it clear that they look for and want and expect Google.” Meanwhile, Google was motivated to renew its Mozilla partnership, as court documents show that Google lost search ad revenue while Yahoo's deal with Firefox was in place.
Baker did not clarify how much Google pays for that deal today, only vaguely estimating that it's “hundreds of millions of dollars” annually, Bloomberg reported.
According to Dyall's thread, Baker also testified that she thought Mozilla might be forced into a "death spiral" if it is stuck partnering with Microsoft for search as an outcome of the trial.
The original article contains 1,008 words, the summary contains 247 words. Saved 75%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
so moz can do browser, mailclient, translate, sync and so much more but they cant do their own search ...to..keep their small market share...and...goole pays well?
You'd be surprised just how few search engines the are.
Google and Bing are about all there is.
Most other 'search engines' just offload the hard work onto existing search engines.
Very few people actually know DuckDuckGo sources their results from Bing for example.
The infrastructure Mozilla uses to serve their content is microscopic compared to what they'd need to operate a fully independent and capable modern search engine.
I think yandex does its own thing, too. I agree it's very hard to compete with google when they have had so much time to improve their algorithms and infrastructure
i was thinking searxng or YaCy style maybe. i mean there were able to set up infrastructures for vpn, sync etc aswell
