Now that everyone believes that Russia bombed its own pipeline, they can quietly admit that it was US/Ukraine

The people who called us conspiracy theorists and Putin lovers for saying all along that it wasn't Russia will never apologize or acknowledge their mistake, and they'll swallow the next obvious lie without a moment's hesitation.
- every time
  
  Kind of weird question maybe, I'm up unreasonably late, but is there a term for the thought process that leads someone to a probably true conclusion (such as the US, Norway, and Ukraine collaborated on the nordstream demolition) due to inference/pattern recognition/intuition, without undeniable evidence?
- They're just going to pretend that they never claimed it was Russia in the first place.
  
  They swallow the consent manufacturing whole and call conspiracy theorist anyone who doesn't, then it's reveled that it was all lies just like the "conspiracy theorists" said and they "acknowledge" that they've been bamboozled (without acknowledging that the peoples who told them they were were right) and swear that they won't fall for it again, then they fall for it again.
  
  I think its more that they believe they had the best information they could. They'll see it as a mistake or a blip in their otherwise good research/sources.

The United States did this, full stop. If Ukraine did it then the EU is fully naked and unprotected.
- Yeah this is just setting up Ukraine as the fall guy. I still think it was really the US and Norway, like Seymour Hersch said it was: https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
  
  Genuinely, if this was Ukraine then the EU coast is completely naked and anyone with a boat can fuck their infrastructure up. You can tell the EU knows this story is bullshit because they're not doing huge investigations into security. Libs still buy it though.
  
  I still think it was really the US and Norway
  As a Norwegian I agree 100%
  It's the exact sort of shit that the demented old cold-war fossils who run our military would get on board with lol

i showed my lib coworker this and they fr did the "concerning, looking into it" meme like
- Weird, I was expecting a "This proves Ukraine attacked a NATO country, time to invade Ukraine" response!
- i showed my lib coworker this
  how do you have the patience? I gave up on this years ago. it always ends with me "looking crazy"
  
  To stop telling the truth for fear of looking crazy, this is a nineteenth type of liberalism.
  
  boredom at work, i just whip my phone out and go "bro check this out" and show him
- [cognitive dissonance intensifies]
- "It wasn't us. Also it's a good thing we did it"

- They will never admit that it was the US, but just moving away from "Russia bombed its own pipeline" is a big deal
- Yeah, the article really spins it to have been one wolf guy.

That narrative never made any sense, anyways. Like, how did even the most credulous westerner explain that to themselves?
Ze evil Ruzzian orcs, incapable of logic due to their inferior brainpan: "ah, yes, I shall bomb my own pipeline to force the effeminate Europeans to buy oil and gas from the US, this is sure to lead me to victory."
Like, what's the framing there? That Russia blew up its own pipeline to get people to be mad at Ukraine for cutting off their energy supply somehow? And then the only spin at all was that they just had a single journalist who nobody knows by name and hasn't been relevant for 20 years post about it on a website nobody's heard of behind a paywall?
- Mark Ames logic: I am very smart, I tell you Putin will never invade Ukraine -> but… Putin invaded Ukraine!! -> Since I am very smart, Putin must be stupid to invade Ukraine -> since Putin is stupid, he is probably stupid enough to blow up his own pipeline
  It took Seymour Hersh to get on RWN for him to shut up about this completely stupid argument of his.
- Ze evil Ruzzian orcs, incapable of logic due to their inferior brainpan: "ah, yes, I shall bomb my own pipeline to force the effeminate Europeans to buy oil and gas from the US, this is sure to lead me to victory."
  I can hear Yugopnik doing his 'ze evil Russian orc' voice in this whole sentence.
- Maybe it's that Putler decided to teach Germany/the EU a lesson by blowing up their own ... Idk . It's so dumb to even think about, I can feel my braincells dying in real time. NATO so obviously did it, I can hardly imagine the level of delusional propaganda brain needed to believe otherwise.
- I believe the story was supposed to be that it was a false flag by Russia, done to frame the US and make the EU states angry enough to not help the US/Ukraine.

The current US Secretary of State literally wrote a book about blowing up Russian gas pipelines. There was always only one suspect here.
- Also wouldn't be the first time the US blew up a Russian undersea pipeline. Has been happening since the Soviet era and at this point is a tradition.

I don't buy it. 6 schmucks just rent a sailboat and some deep sea diving equipment? It's a scapegoat. The only country both capable and incentivized to pull it off is the US. US officials and Biden have said many times they would destroy it. They just can't be seen as responsible for directly attacking Russia and Europe.
- It's ridiculous on its face
- yep
- If it wasn't the US after all that grandstanding, the world needs to be ridiculing the Biden government for incompetence. How can you brag about being able to shut down a pipeline, send a fucking fleet for a week, then – during the same week that you're patrolling the seas – get beaten to the punchline by some guys on a sailing trip hoping to relive their youth and find themselves in a changing world that doesn't understand their gruff humour.

This is diversionary propaganda in my opinion. The goal is to hand over blame of the attack to Ukraine so it doesn't harm the US in diplomacy with Europe and Germany going forwards.
Oh and we're supposed to believe that Ukraine can pull this off but not be able to get the Crimean Bridge?
- Could you send some sources for the claim that the USA are telling Ukraine it needs to consider surrendering?
- You just need to watch Germany reaction to those revelations, or rather, their complete lack of reaction, to know it's bullshit.
- Exactly, they angling the move of saying: "it was a rogue agent of Ukraine". Which is smart in that it is obviously more believable than the narrative of "Russian bombed their own pipeline and a key point of leverage in negotiations with Europe".
  But yeh it is still very funny as a narrative.

Didn't Biden slip up and kinda admit it at one point?
- Don’t have the video link with me, but 3 weeks before Russia invaded, Biden said “if Russia invades, then we will put an end to Nord Stream”, a reporter then asked “how exactly?” and he said “I assure you we’ll be able to do it.”
  
  Here you go: https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8
- Yes he threatened it before it happened
- He did, before they bombed the pipeline even.

Clear bullshit, right?
If Ukraine could pull this off, I could pull this off. I refuse to believe that international infrastructure could be so vulnerable.
- I mean to be fair if you can afford to be a WH40k fan you probably have the resources of a mid-sized Eastern European country.
  
  a six-person team that rented a sailboat under false identities and used deep-sea diving equipment to place explosive charges on the gas pipelines
  I doubt I could do it without getting caught, but the fact that I could cripple Europe's economy with a sailboat and a few explosives is terrifying.
- Won't know until in a few decades it all gets declassified but my bet was always a US Navy Special Warfare team, aka SEAL team. That is who the US uses for such operations. Previous week there had been US Navy units doing exercises in the general area. The level of hostility, type of aggressive narrative control, and how key US outlets were already standing ready to suppress certain details made it suspicious from the start.
  The US uses the same playbook again and again, makes people suspicious even when the US might not have been involved in events.
- You would be surprised what you can do. Most of the time the only things that prevent people from doing actions like this are societal convention or the feeling that you have too much to lose. These fears are compounded by copaganda that convinces you that detectives will ultimately find out that it was you that committed the act. The truth is that anyone who is knowledgeable and possesses certain resources can perform acts like this with only a small group of people and get away with it, maybe not always with a clean record though.
  
  all the targets i would want to
  are high profile enough that they'd have the competent spooks looking into it
  like if you get a militia together you can probably liberate a concentration camp but nobody is getting away with that
- I mean it's still a state. Lot easier to forge all kinds of documents and get stuff if you'rea already a state.
  
  Sure, but that only matters if you want to avoid getting caught afterwards.
- i think we're capable of more than we think
  
  The amount of explosives and specialist diving equipment required to do this is actually not trivial.
  The idea half a dozen dudes did this in a small yacht is laughable.
  The nato ships doing “exercises” to “train” for exactly this type of operation that were in the exact area about 2 weeks beforehand is the immensely more plausible explanation, which points to the UK and USA, probably with the cooperation of Denmark since it was just near to their waters and observation area.

Even this would be an act of war against most of Europe
- European vassals know better than to question the infinite wisdom of their American masters

- The UK. Cucked to both unwavering Atlanticism towards the USA, and a monarchy. Left the EU for the stupidest of all possible reasons. Sent Boris Johnson to sabotage peace deals in Ukraine. Terf island. It just goes on and on.
  
  The UK is definitely the answer. And worse, people are totally, willfully blind to it.
  I remember pointing out where most of the money was coming from for leaving rhe EU (it wasn't Russia, it was American libertarian think tanks, software companies, and healthcare companies) as well as the money that was spent against Corbyn on things like the 'Integrity Initiative' smear abd disinfo campaigns (US gov, UK gov, Facebook, US & UK arms manufacturers, Saudi gov) and people still said 'I don't know about that, why would America care? The papers say it was Russia before the very same people complain about how American our media has gotten.
  People complain about the culture war shit and how it feels like an American import, but if you point out that right wing American think tanks and orgs (from TPUSA to evangelical anti-trans orgs) are funnelling a shit loaf of money here you get blank stares and muttering about how it's probably because we're so similar to the US.
  Our prime minister is a de facto billionaire who has US citizenship and didn't even live here a lot of the time before becoming PM. Keir Starmer, after being a loyal dog of the British security state for years, regularly met with intelligence chiefs in the US long before he was head of the Labour Party. MPs as a whole I've met tend to love the US and have ideas about moving there 'one day' and the smarter/wealthier ones have stock portfolios full of US healthcare companies etc that are lined up to further privatise the NHS. I knew MPs who took paid trips to the US to form working groups with what would have been the Hilary admin before and after 2016 to study, I shit you not, electability, which of course meant building a Democrat-like party whose job it is to completely kill off the left, not to mention all those nice US lobbyists they got to meet.
  But again, if you point that out, people look at you like it's some far out conspiracy theory. The very same people who today complain about America lying and dragging us into the Iraq War are the same people who argue that America doesn't have any control over our foreign policy today.
  
  I think the fact that the UK spawned the US makes the cucking even more embarrassing. This is your child, you made this, and now you just follow every whim
- Japan. They fucking nuked the place twice and they still bow down.
- Poland. We want to be western Europe for over 1000 years, been fucked by them countless times in the meantime but still don't learn.

read theory!
- what is this?
  
  Are you some kind of hypnotist?

They're really pushing for that Punished Zelensky arc, aren't they?
To be a friend of the West...
- Can't wait for his memoirs to come out in 10 years, written by a mansion on Lake Geneva, about how he was betrayed by the libs and to whine about how the West didn't give em enough weapons of mass destruction.

bullshit the Ukrainian military couldn't coordinate a herd of sheep
- i mean they're coordinating their army of sheep pretty hard against russian positions
  i mean they're getting mowed down in the thousands but they've pointed them in a direction
- Time to deploy the tactical corgis for herding
  
  Reporting for service

This is the liberal playbook though. They did this with the Iraqi "wmds" and every CIA coup ever.

link to an archive of the full article: https://ghostarchive.org/archive/kwUkH
looks like they’re scapegoating a lower level special forces ghoul who is already on trial for botching a separate failed operation. They’re claiming he acted without Zelensky’s knowledge lmao
- POV: You are a ghoul who has outlived your usefulness to the fascist government of Ukraine. Lmao
  
  "They're saying I did what?!?!"
  
  I feel like there's some cursed German word to describe this as 'poetic justice' doesn't seem quite adequate.
- he acted without Zelensky’s knowledge lmao
  of course he did. Zelensky isn't his cia handler