Amazon's strict return-to-office policy is pushing more employees into quitting
Amazon's strict return-to-office policy is pushing more employees into quitting
Business Insider reports that some Amazon employees have noticed an increasing number of colleagues are leaving the company over its strict return-to-office mandate.
Amazon's strict return-to-office policy is pushing more employees into quitting::undefined
That's the point...
Layoffs and firings hurt stock price and needs unemployment checks.
So they make it as shitty as possible, hoping people quit instead.
Never quit your job over shit like this. Refuse and make them fire you if they care that much.
You might even get a class action for unlawful termination later, we need to start treating corporations like how they treat people.
Never quit when a company intentionally makes your life shitty?
Yeah, until feasible, stay there. Do the absolute minimum. They want you to quit, since it makes it easier for them to avoid workers' rights legislation
Layoffs and firings hurt stock price
Quite the opposite, stock prices generally soar after layoffs.
The severance packages show up as a line item on the quarterly report though, so if you can have some people quit then that can also be a good thing in the eyes of the executives.
The whole thing leaves a bad taste in your mouth for sure.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but unfortunately the stock price soared at amzn after layoffs. Same thing happened at my old company. Only thing the market sees is the bottom line.
Also, the people quitting are the ones with a strong enough resume to get hired elsewhere.
Quiet quitting is an excellent option if you don't care what your next job is, but the fully remote options are all getting filled quickly, and simply waiting to get fired just means you'll be job hunting later in a potentially worse market, and going back to the office anyway.
Better to move up and out than just wait to be fired, in my opinion.
stock price soared at amzn after layoffs. Same thing happened at my old company.
Stock prices are really not correlative. If the C-suite are chasing that high, you should go while you still can.
Strong disagree. It’s a lot easier to find a job when you have a job.
Never quit your job over shit like this.
Except life's too short as it is. Martyrs are forgotten. Just go, get a better job, don't look back.
9 years and 2 days ago I clocked out of my job on a Friday, caught a plane, clocked in a new job 3000mi away on Monday. I was already working to secure the wages while my wife was showing the house.
Refuse and make them fire you if they care that much.
Wouldn’t this still impact one’s ability to collect unemployment? In some states at least, I believe there’s a distinction between employees fired with cause versus without cause, although I admit I’m no expert on this subject.
EDIT: This article states that unemployment kicks in if the employee lost their job through no fault of their own or quit for “good cause.”
This other article states that depending on the circumstances and the state you worked in, you may be able to collect unemployment if you are fired from your job. Whether you can collect unemployment depends on the circumstances of why your employment was terminated.
Good luck arguing for refusal to return to office as a “good cause!”
If it was part of the initial work agreement that it would be remote then almost certainly it would count.
A rapid shift in job responsibilities or expectations (such as commuting two hours a day vs. 0) can be considered as "Constructive dismissal"
Even if it wasn't part of the original hiring agreement, if it's been that way for years or you have direct emails stating it's fully remote from now on you likely have a good case.
Think back to the pre-COVID days. If management told you that your office was closing, and that you now had to report to a different office an hour away, would you be so dismissive?
This is pretty well established as Constructive Dismissal - a material change in work conditions that makes continued employment unbearable. Depending on the details, this could be seen as a layoff (if they close the office in Texas and tell you there's a job waiting for you in Florida, that counts as a layoff)
I disagree with the layoff angle. Know who's quitting? The talent that can find another WFH job. Know who's staying?
OTOH, maybe Amazon's big enough to survive the brain drain.
Amazon has always been hostile to it's employees. The culture of "step up or fuck off" permeates the entire organization, from warehouses to executives.
They probably think they are, big companies rarely actually appreciate the work their tech guys do once all the fancy toys are in maintenance rather than development
This is known as The Dead Sea Effect.
Modern business is not exactly known for making smart long term choices, they see it as a way to easily trim the payroll to make this quarter's books look better without thinking about what it's going to do to future quarters.
I've been seeing companies left and right shooting themselves in the foot in the same way, it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out
People are staying because the job market is currently cold, especially in tech right now. Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, etc are all on a hiring freeze or at least a very slow hiring rate.
However, you better bet that for the 3 days required by me, I’m only going into the office for only 2-4 hours. Showing up around 11/12 and leaving around 2/3. I’ll actually be able to work after I get home.
That's kinda how I roll currently. Going to office is mainly to bullsh and chat with the peeps about current events and video games.
I can't get shit done at the office. Way too much distraction
Is the implication here that only untalented people would ever put up with working in an office?
I know it's not a commonly heard notion around these parts, but unlikely as it may seem, some people genuinely don't mind working in an office. Some even prefer it. Has nothing to do with talent, everything to do with preference and the level of compensation they get for doing it.
Talented people have more bargaining power. The implication is that nobody wants to work in the office, but some people do it because they have to.
Yes?
If you don't have the skills or experience to sell yourself then obviously you don't have a lot of options.
Is the implication here that only untalented people would ever put up with working in an office?
Not directly. The Dead Sea Effect says "those who can find an acceptable new job the fastest will leave first". That usually means the super-stars and more-talented, but the residue behind all that evaporation isn't all salt. Some people, even the most employable, will stick around, while their benefit/cost/risk/tolerance kind of equation still allows it.
For some people, RTO doesn't hit their cost and tolerance all that hard. The more unsuitable a person's home environment is for work and how easy their commute is, that'll greatly affect forced RTO acceptance and the Dead Sea Effect.
That is likely the point. It's a stealth layoff.
Permanently Deleted
100% by design
I agree with what I saw someone else post. They want people to quit. Blindly forcing RTO is a way to bully employees without being legally "hostile”.
If you quit, you can't draw unemployment.
The company's HR apparently still has to approve it even if you are eligible, but it's at least potentially an option.