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Lots of people seem to have learned what "war" is in the last few months and are shocked that it includes large numbers of civilian casualties.
Israel has the equipment and capability to wipe Gaza off the map if they wanted to. If this were an actual genocide and killing Palestinians was the only goal, there would be way, WAY more casualties.
Now, is Israel committing war crimes? Absolutely. So is Hamas. So is nearly any armed group that finds themselves in a conflict. War is brutal and turns men into monsters capable of horrendous things. But this doesn't fit the definition of genocide and it cheapens the word to try and frame it that way.
Mate if they orchestrated a complete mass murder in an instant, absolutely no one would be able to defend it. This way, people get to just say "well, it's war".
It's not "large numbers of civilian casualties"
It's "the VAST majority of deaths are innocent civilians". It's like if Texas kidnapped 5 random citizens to kill every time someone was given the death sentence. Would you say that's acceptable because it's just "collateral damage"?
This is by design on the part of Hamas though. It doesn't excuse the situation, but it does make it more complicated especially with regard to intent, which has to matter when considering charges of genocide.
Oh yeah, I totally believe that Hamas is planning where Israel drops their thousands of bombs, and not an AI named 'The Gospel'
It's all Hamas' fault. Everything. Israel is totally innocent of their countless of war crimes
I don't know that one negative makes the other right. They can both be culpable of fabricating this situation to feed larger interests. IDF is reeling in Bibi's dirty war and Hamas is Iran's puppet to destabilize the region. They are all shitheads, as history had shown. I don't know why leftys have coraled around defending Hamas when it's the Palestinian people suffering the brunt of their actions.
Hamas is Iran's puppet to destabilize the region.
Not saying I don't believe you, but do you have sources or more info?
My reason for "defending" Hamas is because of the scale of destruction (Israel is systematically destroying their entire country vs homemade mortars made by Hamas) and the intent (Israel wants to have the entire land to themselves by almost any means necessary vs Hamas wants to fight their oppressors) so I place much more blame on Israel for killing civilians than Hamas. Both are bad, sure. Everyone knows that, every innocent death is an absolute and heartbreaking tragedy. Hamas has little control of the situation tho, while Israel has the third largest military in the world. Who do you think is more responsible?
Oh, look... the White Supremacism Fan Brigade is blaming genocide on the victims of genocide again.
Of course, the liberals who run Lemmy.world will ban me if I call you a fascist or a white supremacist... because reasons.
You don't think two things can be true at the same time? Hamas absolutely are using human shield tactics, and have been for as long as they've been in existence. There are articles on the Internet showing how and why they do this years back.
AND at the same time, Israel is using that fact to bomb much more indiscriminately than they could be.
Hamas absolutely are using human shield tactics,
Oh... are the white supremacists still clinging to this lie? Let's see who it really is that is using Palestinians as "human shields," shall we?
White supremacist? Bro we're talking about two Middle Eastern countries.
Moreover, you showing when Israelis have used human shields doesn't even remotely prove or disprove anything Palestine has done. So respectfully, no.
we’re talking about two Middle Eastern countries.
Oh... are you going to pretend that you didn't know Israel is a white supremacist settler-colonialist state - and always has been?
Let's see how long that works for you, eh?
you showing when Israelis have used human shields
The only hard evidence we have for the use of "human shields" is their use by the fascist side.
So - extremely disrespectfully - put up or shut up.
Wait, so you're claiming that Israelis are Middle Eastern but are trying to exterminate themselves and preserve white people? I am so confused by your insane argument.
As for the evidence, you linked me a sketchy article from a non-reliable source. Just Google "Hamas human shields" and set the year to 2014, 2015, 2016... It's one of their longest running traditions and has been acknowledged by the UN and virtually every country on earth.
To be honest, this is probably just a troll account so I'm not sure why I'm even wasting the time.
trying to exterminate themselves and preserve white people?
Israeli apologism requires some hysterical pretzel-logic - but you've managed to go even lower than the average shill here. I guess white supremacism is a hard subject for liberals who want to pretend it doesn't exist, no?
you linked me a sketchy article
Ignore it if you want - it doesn't change anything.
Just Google “Hamas human shields”
Riiiiight, Clyde - every picture of a Palestinian child is a picture of a "human shield," right? And if you can't see the Hamas "terrorist" said child is carrying on her back it's just proof of how sneaky they are, correct?
I’m not sure why I’m even wasting the time.
You have to because your pro-white supremacist propaganda is falling before your very eyes. It's a bit of a case of sunken cost fallacy if you ask me - but I have yet to see fascist sympathizers drop a debunked narrative in a timely fashion.
Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
It's a genocide. Your point is they could probably be more efficient and obvious about the civilian murder. Therefore, it's not a genocide.
Your point is moronic.
I think their point is that: of course it's not the intention to wipe them out, because if it was, it would already have been done on Oct 8th. Which isn't a terrible argument.
Hamas has stated it wants to genocide Israel, and their actions match that. Indiscriminate rocket fire, suicide bombing, invading etc. essentially everything they can do.
By contrast Israel has not (officially) said they want to genocide Palestine, and they aren't using even a fraction of the weapons at their disposal. Personally, I see their actions more as angry and sloppy. What's the alternative, that they're going to kill hundreds of people a day for the next years? That's ridiculous.
of course it's not the intention to wipe them out, because if it was, it would already have been done on Oct 8th.
....
Unless they wanted to commit a genocide while maintaining just enough plausible deniability to have people like you and I debating their intentions while it happens.
In which case it would look... exactly how it looks. Crazy, that.
You could say that about literally every war
All of these posts are so weird to me about arguing that Israel is commiting genocide. No one seems to mention or care that over and over again Hamas has admitted and encouraged genocide against Israel. But they're smaller so I guess it's okay?
One is a terrorist group. The other famously self-describes as “the only democracy in the Middle East”.
Do you really think we should have equal expectations?
Right. Because if their goal was to wipe out all Palestinians, they would of course put all of their efforts and resources towards that without letting international politics affect what they do and how they do it... /s
“Everyone warcrimes actually” is a pretty weak take.
And Nazi Germany could have used poison gas to clear the western USSR of it's population so much faster - so I guess there was nothing genocidal about Nazi Germany, eh apologist?