Reminder

Yuo. Conservatives di this all the time. See: woke, politically correct, commie They use terms as cudgels without concern for meaning

The way israels been acting the last 3 months or so, (and also the 30 years prior) I think one could be forgiven for becoming more antisemitic. I mean, people very justly held heavy prejudice against Germans in the late 1940s and 1950s/60s, even though most obviously weren't Nazis. Why exactly are Israeli Jews different?

valid criticism of their literal fucking war crimes

Sir, why do you work for the genocide of the Jewish race? Have you no shame, sir? Have you no decency?

/s

Israel is not "Jewish people". Israel "could" end without a single Jew dying. Also, Jews lived there when it was Palestine. I dunno did they die when it became Israel? How are you arriving at the end of a concept being mass murder?

I think if Israel stopped trying to run itself as an ethnostate they'd be fine. I think there's an argument that the "concept" of what currently constitutes Israel may be too tainted to realistically save. Many unwilling to admit fault, apologize, and return what was stolen. And many unwilling to forgive them for doing it. It would take real concession and change. Something those in charge don't want. So the people both Israeli and Palestinian will continue to suffer for the gains of wealthy genocidal bigots.

Fuck that. Anti Zionism isn't antisemitism. Israel is a fascist state with no right to exist. Anyone who associates that fascist state to Jewishness is the true antisemite

It's a tough needle to thread

It really isn't as long as both parties are arguing in good faith and refraining from strawman arguments or other logical fallacies.

Sadly, even that is usually too much to ask for, as evidenced by your apparently good faith post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy of assuming that you can't argue that genocide of Palestinians is a bad thing without people agreeing with you by arguing that genocide of Israeli people would be super neat.

Of course, claiming that what other people say apart from agreeing with you that Palestinians shouldn't be murdered is the responsibility of you for some reason is in itself an association fallacy.

Come to think of it, ARE you arguing in good faith or are you just taking this chance to apply guilt by association without appearing to? 🤔

Anyway: NO it's NOT difficult to defend Palestinians without being antisemitic and benignly doing so does NOT make you responsible for antisemites agreeing with what you're saying and then adding a lot that you did NOT say.

If you see a beaten up homeless person in the street and they keep screaming something about "I'm gonna take over the united States government", the threat is basically idle and has to be taken in the context of what power he has, as a homeless perspn, as compared to a state like the US. Israel has all the power and is in no kind of substantial danger from Hamas or anyone else. It can erradiacte the entire place easily. Palestine is the homeless person screaming how he wants to replace biden while in fact he is beaten to the ground and survives on scrapes of food.

It’s not difficult at all. One is criticising government policies and extremists while the other is just bigotry using criticism of an entire people for their government policies and extremists.

Wouldn't be the first time "self-hating Jew" has been used to shut down any kind of anti-Zionist critique. Bernie Sanders had his face shoved in that turd all through 2016. I remember hearing it tossed around since at least the Bush Era, when being against the Iraq War was framed as a form of anti-Semitism.

I've already seen it. I think the common term is "self-hating Jew".

"anti-Semitism" used to be a term with a lot of weight and serious connotations. Now, it's been misused and abused so often that the power it once had is gone.

If anyone who disagrees with the genocidal far right government of Israel is an anti-semite then, of course, the term will lose it's power to shame actual bigots. It should surprise nobody that actual anti-jewish bigots are coming out of the shadows.

I was misquoted by an industry rag as one many years ago. I'm a huge fuckin Jew. People look for the negative

I heard them being called "self hating jews" or "traitors" think Dixie chick's during Iraq or MLK in the boondocks.

I've been labeled an anti-semetic Jew for speaking against Israel's government.

Since October it's been a really easy concept to grasp. Hamas is a terrorist group that murdered and kidnapped a bunch (don't know the exact number something around 200+) of Israeli civilians, the IDF responded in a predictably overzealous way and have now killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 civilians in Palestine. Neither Hamas nor the IDF have a moral high ground here. They both need to stop killing civilians. Super easy.

Judaism =/= the Israeli government

I'd make this into a T-shirt but the amount of people that have no idea what ≠ means is too damn high.

Genuine question, would it be appropriate to say that the respective religions at play are not actually the core of the conflict? It seems like the only religious motivation would be concerning Jerusalem and not the entirety of the contested land.

On broad analysis, it seems similar to how the conflict between Irish Catholics and Protestants isn't really religious, more just shorthand for idealogical differences between the two groups. Is that an apt comparison, or does religion play a more active role in this conflict?

That's great until you encounter all the people condemning Israel, then committing hate crimes against the local Jews. The people that are pro Palestinians and cheer on Hamas. There are also plenty of people that condemn Hamas and support Israel in the same breath.

None of those people are the vocal minority. They're the majority of supporters of these causes.

Zionism = the belief that the Jewish people have the right of self-determination in the form of the state of Israel in which their national aspirations

Anti-zionism = the belief that the Jewish people, uniquely among all the peoples of the world, have no right of self-determination or a state in which their national aspirations can be pursued.

Can you see why that's antisemitic?

Israel is, besides all that, already established. Zionism was completed. It's not going anywhere.

Jews who stand against zionism don't usually have a lot of motivation to live in Israel. It's a structural issue with the country.

I have seen far more "death to America" on here than "death to Jews", in fact I haven't even seen a "death to Jews" on lemmy yet.

Well that's a relief, I thought I was missing out this whole time

Another problem is that Israel is an ethnostate, which is rare in the world today. Yes, you can be an Arab Israeli technically. It's not a perfect example.

The problem is that creating a state as a "Jewish homeland" is inherently exclusionary to non-Jews. It's a really backwards idea since the concept of adoptive nationality arose in the late 1700s.

France has a strong culture but is not exclusionary to it's neighbors (Germany, Spain, etc.). Many border regions share culture with those countries. A person from the south of France has more in common with northern Italy or Spain than someone from northern France.

Do the parts of Israel that neighbor the West Bank and Gaza have similar interchange of culture and ideas? No.

What in the bad faith.... Do you not understand what you're replying to?

The usefulness of a words ability to describe something has nothing to do with how bad the actions someone does are. Both can be true that the word has lost its meaning and the things that elon do are bad

But being against what Israel does, is not antisemitism. It has nothing to do with religion altogether!