If you're advocating for reduced car use, increased micromobility and public transportation in the community, voting for change, and doing you're part where you can, good on ya, you're fighting the good fight. If you're unilaterally calling for cars to be abolished, saying that anyone that owns a vehicle is the worst, and shitting on electric cars which are substantially better for the planet simply on the basis of "BAHT ITS STILL A CAR" then you're an embarrassment and damaging the cause. I have zero doubts big oil and gas is doing everything they can to propagate these views on electric cars in communities and view holders like this, so congrats on being in their back pocket.
This community is so self-damaging to their own cause with their extremist hyperbole.
Anyone with 2 brain cells would agree that better city infrastructure, and increased use of public transportation is a good thing, but anyone with 2 brain cells should also be able to recognize that the car will 100%, absolutely, be necessary on some level basically until we're able to teleport, and that unilaterally calling for bans on cars (which I'm embarrassed to say is a view that is actually a thing in this community) puts you in our less than 2 brain cells bracket unfortunately.
It reminds me of vegans alienating and crapping on vegetarians, or meatless Monday folks who are trying to do their part but might not be ready for the lifestyle change yet. LIke wtf, we're all on the same side here.
I live in the northernmost million + population city in all of the Americas (Edmonton), and provide in home healthcare services to children with disabilities across the city. I'm not going to bus, bike, or walk in -30-40 C weather in the dead of winter when I have to be at my next visit across the city in 20 minutes. If you think that's a feasible thing, then you need to reassess your deluded opinions, and put your money where your mouth is and take the train to the hospital rather than an ambulance next time you need to.
To be fair I'm in a minority, weather and profession wise, no doubt. But there's a HUGE number of people, also simply because the infrastructure hasn't caught up yet in many places, where this isn't possible. I feel like most of these, blinders on bonkers people, are those that live European cities with fantastic public transportation (which again, is THE DREAM for real), but somehow think that this London, Paris, Amsterdam-esque fair weathered, public transportation dream is just the norm everywhere and are somehow unaware that the rest of the ruddy world exists outside their little bubble?? (and before I hear anyone saying "oh but it snows sometimes here too in London"; buddy... Visit northern Canada. These places are fair weathered).
So next time you're about to post some toxic bullshit like this checkbox picture, remember:
- Crap on public infrastructure.
- Crap on politicians not doing enough, and fight like hell for change.
- Don't crap on people who are just trying to get by in situations different from yours, who need (yes "need", see my 5th paragraph) to use cars, and don't crap on electric cars. Crapping on electric cars like calling someone using nicotine gum to quit smoking weak because they didn't go cold turkey. A step in the right direction is a step in the right direction.
Also feel free to crap on all the people buying SUVs and Megatrucks when they don't actually need it vs. a car ("I like to be higher up" - my mom), increasing pedestrian deaths, emissions, tire and brake dust, noise, parking space, and accident damage. If for your next vehicle you buy a car, a hybrid, or an electric and you need it, then don't let anyone in this community tell you you're not doing the right thing :)
Disagree on inefficient.
Internal combustion engines in standard small size convert 19.65-22.1% of their energy from thermal to kinetic.
The ratio of electron throughput from battery to electric motor can be as LOW as 88% but hovers between 92-98% efficiency.
Even if you had a fuel cell in the back, running electric motors quintuples (5×) the standard energy efficiency owing to the principle of energy quality type preservation in conversion (High to High vs Low to High):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_transformation
So 1 electric car = 4 less carbon liquid fuelled cars worth of pollution.
What you're actually looking for is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
Jevon's Paradox states that improved efficiency of something will only increase its use, and in this case, electric cars will in fact, correlate to car use, and increased mineral demands.
This is a problem you cannot solve endemic to humanity.
Just remember, the argument relies on not just getting rid of cars, but drastically improving public transport.
World peace is more likely given government attitudes towards public services!
This is why people hate liberals, and why liberals often migrate over to conservatism: no matter how right you are, there's always someone happy to crap on you for not being right enough.
Don't shit on EVs for merely being one of many solutions that all need to be engaged with. It's not like without EVs, so many people would be rushing to areas of greater density and riding public transit, so your message is not helpful in achieving what you want, and actively angers your allies.
I really think we're too far in the hole here.
I think fear grips people at every angle and none of us are brave enough to accept bold action for positive change in our society. It seems like most people are just retracting instead.
I vaguely remember that "Ye" (formerly Kanye West) once said something like he formed a think tank to build a city but the thing stopping his team was that "Ye" didn't understand any of the concepts and he ran it into the ground.
I want public transportation, I think everyone wants it at this point but no no one understands why we need it. They all just want to escape.
(This message was brought to you by the new 2024 Ford Escape: just hit the road and escape to paradise)
Would be nice if this had trains and buses and bikes columns.
small amount of electric cars and mostly public transport
Wher train 😢
In Case of Electric-Car Fire, Half of Fire Departments Are Unprepared
the car fires for EV are very much a different thing.
I'm sure this is unpopular this community but I feel like "fuck cars" folks are either living in a dream world where public transport can answer everyone's transportation needs. If you live in a city with all the amenities you need where public transport is good and economically viable sure, "Fuck cars", but if you don't...
At this point I have landed at:
Someday I am going to get a used adventure bike, and modify it to be a hybrid capable of electric only at low speeds / low acceleration, and charge that with solar panels.
Why not an electric bicycle?
Theyre astoundingly overpriced for what they are.
Why not public transportation?
Well obviously use that whenever possible, but I like the hybrid concept because if you run out of fuel, you can do electric running, or if power goes out, you can charge batteries or run important equipment via the gas motor going through a transformer into a battery yada yada.
That and it'll be useful to be able to cruise around on said motorcycle when our modern american civilized society finally collapses into chaos.
I am all for urban redesign projects and locally sustainable diverse economies and all that, but i dont have faith enough of that will happen quickly enough to basically make it totally safe to just stay in one particular metro area.
EDIT: I suppose maximum utility apocalypse bike would also be capable of running on ethanol, and maybe even somehow whatever the proper name for the fuel refined from fast food restaurant grease is, forget the name. Ive heard it makes your vehicle smell like french fries though lol.
You forgot about the material extraction and carbon emissions for manufaturing a new electric car. Can someone link the data for it please?
Edit: The article in below reply says it best. Lithium extraction and manufaturing emissions for electric cars are bad for the environment but still dozens of times better than ICE cars lifecycle emissionsthose green check marks, ill take both!
look how little that electric cars have to sacifice, while costing twice as much! so efficient!
I have the occasional beer I'm on year two of LSV [low speed vehicle] 25mph max, 30 mile range. The GEM does what I need it to do. Old & retired, so my requirements are minimal, maybe 100 miles a month. I heard lots of opinion that the low speed would invoke road rage. I find that driving the GEM is much like towing a RV, if there are more than a couple of cars, I pull over & let them pass. Mechanically & electrically basic. Everything is smaller & lighter, so I can do the minor maintenance. The difference in travel time is minimal. Easier to drive safely as my physical skills decline.
Not really a climate solution, more of a pragmatic conservation of my personal resources.
A good start would be greatly restricting the speed, power & performance of vehicles allowed to be registered on the street. Wanna drive 0-60 in 3 seconds & three times the speed limit, go to the race track
Several years ago, I considered an EV, got sticker shock, and slowly backed away. I wound up with an ebike instead. What happened with the latter is it turned out I really loved that thing and rode it far more frequently than I would have imagined. It's not a total car replacement, to be fair, but it handles most trips.
Today, EVs are still expensive, though there are more options and a bit more competition on price. But to make them worthwhile, you need to drive a lot so that you get back some of that initial investment in savings with charging vs fuelling. This means I am not really the demographic for EVs anymore, since I don't drive enough. It's so weird… I guess I'll just keep that 2006 ICE around until it dies, which might be awhile yet considering how slowly the mileage is ticking up.
EVERY INCREMENTAL IMPROVEMENT IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S INCREMENTAL.
ONLY INSTANTLY PERFECT AND COMPLETE SOLUTIONS PLZ KTHX
🥴🥴🥴
The other option to "reduce" cars is replan and rebuild entire cities, districts and even countries around the idea of places being nearby enough to be able to walk or cycle. And cars would still be needed.
This is why mobile electric cars are an easier option. It turns out that there has to be some level of autonomy and ownership, rather than thinking purging cars out of existence will suddenly move us towards full communism, or whatever the idea is. Allowing personal ownership means people have ways to rebuild places to live or migrate for themselves.
The bigger problem is not the smaller cars, but the SUVs and mini trucks everyone loves to have, and multiple car ownership. Pareto frontier is the key to everything, cutting down on emissions and too many cars on roads included.
I posted this to Reddit over a year ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/xw8qcb/new_ev_ad_just_dropped_oc/
prices are not where an average person could go out and buy one in the usa $7.25 is still the minimum wage not to mention rising costs of insurance and property taxes and some states tack on extras fee for certain things and some insurance companies are leaving states making the cost jump even more
cheaper gasoline vehicles are barely affordable if at all for most even used ones
what about the battery and materials having to be mined and what have you
are the workers from material gathering to the final build paid a fair living wage
in some places such as tennessee the charging stations for electric are shutting down
My favorite part about this sub is how everyone acts like the entire world is able to just stop having a car and be able to carry on normally about their lives as if cars haven't been forced into nearly all infrastructure plans globally since this inception. Like it's every citizens personal choice that nobody built a functioning transit system in the many decades before they were born, or that the place they can afford to live is too far from the place that pays the wages they need to live is too far to bike or bus to.
Like, push for fewer cars and less car centric design, but also stop being a fucking cunty dick about it.
Honest question. Does anyone here have enough humility to understand there's a similar checklist of things an automobile solves?
Now it doesn't mean it's the right solution but particularly in North America due to lack of XYZ automobiles are king.
It's very easy to go "hurr durr automobiles bad" but do you understand the multitude of reasons why we use them? All the things that need to be improved or fixed before we entertain the alternatives?
Saying this as a car owner who takes public transit far more than other car owners.
Public transit would be great if you didn’t have to ride with other people. That’s my real problem with it in America at least; there are always loud and gross people aboard. My town has phenomenal bud infrastructure, but people drive because it’s faster, and because you don’t have to be around undesirable people.
Maybe public transportation where each person or group could ride in their own automated pod, which would be publicly owned. That way you could still go skiing/hiking/etc, since mass transportation to those places is very difficult due to low volume.
