1y ago

Well, it looks like verification photos might be useless now.

Stable Diffusion @lemmy.dbzer0.com

Blaze @lemm.ee

1y ago

223 18

233 comments

I never understood how they were useful in the first place. But that's kind of beside the point. I assume this is referencing AI, but due to the fact that you've only posted one photo out of apparently four, I don't really have any idea what you're posting about.
- The point of verification photos is to ensure that nsfw subreddits are only posting with consent. Many posts were just random nudes someone found, in which the subject was not ok with having them posted.
  The verification photos show an intention to upload to the sub. A former partner wanting to upload revenge porn would not have access to a verification photo. They often require the paper be crumpled to make it infeasible to photoshop.
  If an AI can generate a photorealistic verification picture, it cannot be used to verify anything.
  
  I didn't realize they originated with verifying nsfw content. I'd only ever seen them in otherwise text-based contexts. It seemed to me the person in the photo didn't necessarily represent the account owner just because they were holding up a piece of paper showing the username. But if you're matching the verification against other photos, that makes more sense.
  
  Was it really that hard to Photoshop enough to bypass mods that are not experts at photo forensic?
  
  On a side note, they are also used all the time for online selling and trading, as a means to verify that the seller is a real person who is in fact in possession of the object they wish to sell.
  
  How does traditional - as in before AI - photo verification knows the image was not manipulated? In this post the paper is super flat, and I've seen many others.
- I found this singular screenshot floating around elsewhere, but yes r/stablediffusion is for AI images.
- I had some trouble figuring out what exactly was going on as well, but the Stable Diffusion subreddit gave away that it was at least AI related, as that's one of the popular AI programs. It wasn't until I saw the tag though, that I really understood - Workflow Included. Meaning that the person included the steps they used to create the photo in question. Which means that the person in the photo was created using the AI program and is fake.
  The implications of this sort of stuff are massive too. How long until people are using AI to generate incriminating evidence to get people arrested on false charges, or the opposite - creating false evidence to get away with murder.
  
  If you look close her freckles are smeared and her background furniture is abstract.
- Her freckles are smeared and her background furniture is abstract.
- Pretty sure it started because nsfw subreddit mods realized they demand naked pictures of women that nobody else had access to and it made their little mod become a big mod.
  
  Verification posts go back further than Reddit.
  They were used extensively on 4chan, because they were the only way to prove that a person posting was in fact that person.and yes, it was mostly people posting nudes, but it was more that they wanted credit.
  The reason it carried on to Reddit was because people were using the accounts to advertise patreon and onlyfans, and mods mostly wanted the people making money off the pictures to be the people who took those pictures.
  Also it was useful for AMA posts and other such where a celebrity was involved.
  
  “No no it’s not about consent it’s about someone being horny” is such a bad take… and bad taste.

Look at this verification
- Every night it even makes me legitimize
- Ha perfect!
- Is that Chad Kroger from Nickelback?
  
  "look at this photograph" meme is based on nicklback song yes
  
  Is that Joey with something on his head?

Due to having so many people trying to impersonate me on the internet, I've become somewhat of a expert on verification pictures.
You can still easily tell that this is fake because if you look closely, the details, especially the background clutter, is utterly nonsensical.
The object over her right shoulder (your left), for example, looks like if someone blended a webcam with a TV with a nightstand.
Over her left shoulder (your right), her chair is only on that one side and it blends into the counter in the background.
Is it a table lamp or a wall mounted light?
The doorframe in background behind her head is not even aligned.
Her clavicles are asymmetrical, never seen that on a real person.
Her wispy hairstrands. Real hair don't appear out of thin air in loops.
- The point isn't that you can spot it.
  The point is that the automated system can't spot it.
  Or are you telling me there is a person looking at every verification photo, and if they did they would thoroughly scan the photo for imperfections?
  
  The idea of using a picture upload for automated verification is completely unviable. A much more commonly used system would be something like telling you to perform a random gesture on camera on the spot, like "turn your head slowly" or "open your mouth slowly" which would be trivial for a human to perform but near impossible for AI generators.
  
  More than that - these systems will eventually figure out how to not bitch the background so obviously. Then what? As others have said, we could switch to verification videos. That will be an extra year or two.
  
  I think so. I don't think there would be more than a few dozens of verification to do every day, with a dozen of mods, it seems doable in this context. It's not like millions of users are asking for verification every day.
- Margot Robbie
  Due to having so many people trying to impersonate me on the internet
  Uh huh.
  
  That's esteemed Academy Award nominated verification picture expert/character actress Margot Robbie to you!
  Now watch me win my Golden Globe tonight. (Still no best actress... sigh)
- Her clavicles are asymmetrical, never seen that on a real person.
  Shit, are you telling me that every time I see myself in the mirror I'm actually looking at a string of AI generated images, generated in real-time? The matrix is real. 😱
  It's either that, or my clavicles are actually very asymmetric. ☹️
  
  What I meant is that her right clavicle (your left) is about an inch higher than her left.
  I could be wrong, of course, but I imagine if that condition actually exists, then it would be extremely painful.
- Due to so many people trying to impersonate me on the Internet
  Yeah see, now I am not really sure if you're the real Margot Robbie.
  Could you send me a verification picture?
  
  But then how will I astroturf (I mean, organically market) my current and future movies, like Golden Globe winning summer blockbuster, Barbie, now available on Blu-Ray and select streaming services, here if I get verified?
  
  There's already an AI generated one in this post (you didn't specify that it be her or legitimate).
- I'm not seeing the levitating hair
  
  Me neither. There's clearly more pictures that aren't included here, so maybe on one of those?
  The odd thing about the hair in that picture to me is that on the left side of the photo, there's one piece that seems to go on a nearly 90 degree bend for seemingly no reason, mid air. I don't generally see hair get.... Kinked like that. I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's odd at least.
  The rest of the hair seems fine to me, but I'm no expert.
  I will note however that the object(s) in the background on the left side of the photo look like a gigantic (novelty sized) point and shoot camera from the 90's. The box on top is the viewfinder and there's the impression of a circle below that which would be the lens.
  Just makes me giggle at the thought of such a large disposable camera.
- every time I'd seen this photo, I only focused on the subject in the foreground, if I were the one verifying that the person in the photo is real, I'd have fallen for it. To me, the subject is entirely convincing. the issues you mentioned about the clavicles and hair, i think kind of make it a bit more convincing. Nobody is completely symmetrical for one, so seeing something like that, while not common, wouldn't be necessarily uncommon. The hair, to me, just looks like normal person hair. sometimes hair do be like that.
  
  Dude same, before I even read anything I was thinking 'that's a cute girl I didn't know they started doing verifications on lemmy' then I read and saw the whole hullabaloo.
- Didn't get the 5^th point, there's only one clavicle visible, am I missing something?
  
  Even so clavicles can be asymmetrical due to previous injury. We are pretty asymmetrical overall if you look closely enough.
- An easy 'solution' to fix the background is to just use a mild blurring tool. They're verifying you not your house, it wouldn't be sus to just have a mild messy blur around you.
  
  The bokeh effect is surprisingly hard to fake, actually, because it has to do with the physical properties of the camera lens. I think with a light Gaussian blur it would be even less convincing.
- The "holes" on her cheeks are easy to miss but seriously unsettling close up. They're not like freckles or blackheads but more like what termite tunnels look like in wood.
  
  Nah. They just look like big pores. There are a few giveaways here that it's AI generated, but the pores aren't one of them.
  Source: have big pores. Also, google images.

I’m pretty sure we can just switch to a verification video chat which will buy us a year.
- One year? I'm guessing six months, what a time to be alive!?!
  
  two more papers down the line!
  
  Nope, 1 month ago: https://humanaigc.github.io/animate-anyone/static/videos/demo11.mp4
- I think ai can already do videos with people in them. Not without it looking completely natural though so there will be some discrepancies.
  
  AI video still looks like fever dreams. The AI can't keep consistent details, specially in the background, from frame to frame. There's always parts that morph and look like conjured up by Van Gogh during a maniacal delirium. Maybe in a couple of years and with some human grooming in the middle.
  
  Not in real time with responsive replies.
  
  It’s purpose is also to reduce the chances.
  If somebody is going to go to all the trouble of fooling a human, they probably aren’t going to just start spamming random pictures on the community for an instant moderator ban.

At some point the only way to verify someone will be to do what the Klingons did to rule out changelings: Cut them and see if they bleed.
- Don't worry, companies like 23andMe and Ancestry have been banking DNA records, so mimicking blood won't be too hard, either.
- I think that stopped working as of Picard season 3.
  
  Wait really? Haven't seen Picard, what happened?
- The Thing migrated to Star Trek?
- Ye, good thing I already have spychecking as a persistent habit!
  
  Pyro has entered the chat.

Can confirm, I made some random korean dude on dall-e to send to Instagram after it threatened to close my fake account, and it passed.
- https://www.thispersondoesnotexist.com/
  
  The eyes are in the exact same spot in every photo
  
  It's gotten a lot better with teeth. Last I looked at that site they were very misaligned. It was very Uncanny Valley.
  Edit: ok, this one's a bit whack:
  
  Image: Close up of a man's mouth. The teeth look 2D, and continue endlessly in a straight row behind his lips; there is too little curvature to indicate they are connected to a jawbone.
  
  spooky
- Why would they require a photo? What the heck?
  
  Social media companies must have to charge less if several people seeing ads are actually bots
- Hahaha, those jerks!

Once again everyone on the internet is a cute girl if they want to be.
Or a cute cat.
Or Elvis.
- And then there is me. I'm all of the above.
  
  Ah, an Nyanvis.
- If this is what we get, fine. She's hot.
- It's the return of 16/f/cali

What am I looking at here?
- GenAI made image of a verification post. The point i guess is that with genAI photos, anyone can easily make a fake verification post, making them less useful as a means to verify identity.
  The post originally is from reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/s/fEle6uaiR7)
  
  Thank thought what it was but wasn't sure.
  
  Why are people making verification posts on social media?

I can finally realise my dream of commenting on r/blackpeopletwitter
- Yup. This is already a thing
  
  Even before Stable Diffusion or other publicly available AI generators, there was https://www.thispersondoesnotexist.com which generates a random photo of a human every time you reload the page.

Very rapidly the basis of truth in any discussion is going to get eroded.
- Micro communities based on pre (post-truth) connections. Only allowing people into the community that can be confirmed be others?
  I've been thinking of starting a matrix community to get away from discord and it's inevitable Botting.

They were always useless

Isn't there a trick where you can ask someone to do a specific hand gesture to get photos verified. That'll still work especially because AI makes fingers look wonky
- AI has been able to do fingers for months now. It's moving very rapidly so it's hard to keep up. It doesn't do them perfectly 100% of the time, but that doesn't matter since you can just regenerate it until it gets it right.
  
  "For your verification please close left eye and run two fingers through your hair while eating a cauliflower with whipped cream. Attach a paperclip to your left ear and write your username on your forehead using an orange marker."
  
  You could probably just set up a time for the person to send a photo, and then give them a keyword to write on the paper, and they must send it within a very short time. Combine that with a weird gesture and it's going to be hard to get a convincing AI replica. Add another layer of difficulty and require photos from multiple angles doing the same things.
  
  And it'll get better if loads of verification posts are doing hand signs
- "Can you hold up 7 fingers in front of the camera?"
  Photo with one hand up
  
  Show us a picture of your hands with the fingers made out of penises
- Some AI models have already nailed the fingers, this won't do anything. We need something that we can verify without having to trust the other person. I hate to say it but the block chain might be one of the best ways to authenticate users to avoid bots
  
  Block chains have no inherent capability to perform user authentication.
  
  Blockchains aren't exactly the best at proof of personhood. Usually all they can do is make masquerading as multiple people (a Sybil Attack) more expensive.
  That's not to say interesting approaches haven't come out of blockchain-adjacent work, like https://passport.gitcoin.co/.
  
  How would the blockchain help?

That’s why you need a video with movement. AI still can’t do video right.
- It's getting close, now you can provide a picture of someone and an animated skeleton, and it outputs the person moving according to the reference.
  
  Where do I get an animated skeleton?
  
  midjourney will start producing videos in 2024.
  https://ymcinema.com/2024/01/04/midjourney-will-start-to-create-ai-videos/
- It can https://youtu.be/8PCn5hLKNu4
  It is however still cutting edge research
- Until it can
  
  An arms race is inevitable until someone invents a perfect automated Turing test.
- Yet

My discord friends had some easy ways to defeat this.
You could require multiple photos; it's pretty hard to get AI to consistently generate photos that are 100% perfect. There would bound to be things wrong with trying to get AI to generate multiple photos of the same (non-celeb) person that would make it obvious it's fake.
Another idea was to make it a short video instead of a still photo. For now, at least, AI absolutely sucks balls at making video.
- Just wait a few months for video, about consistency in photos, just use loras and seeds.

Never trust your eyes or ears again in this modern digital hellscape! https://youtube.com/shorts/55hr7Tx_7So?si=db5hROJWYjdQRMTD
- In 'Stranger In A Strange Land' there's an interesting profession; Fair Witnesses are sworn to provide a disinterested examination of any situation.
  
  I've been thinking how much we need this for eight years now, and since the AI explosion it only seems more dire.

AI pictures are like reverse uncanny-valley: They feel right, but you will shit brix upon further inspection.
- I like saying they run on "dream logic"
- What do you see? I'm not super observant, but she looks completely normal to me. I'm not sure what the black box is behind her, but maybe it's a fridge...
  Just curious. Thanks!
  
  mainly the stuff in the background. but also the lighting is a bit off above her left eye.

I am totally not 𝖺 𝗋𝗈𝖻𝗈𝗍.
- Do not trust the snake in the terminals
- https://www.netflix.com/nz/title/81042328?source=35

Thank goodness we can now use AI to do something that could already easily be done by taking a picture off someones social media.
- I'm confused. How would that help? The whole point of a verification post is that the username in the image matches the username posting the image. If you're just talking about Photoshop, then let's be clear about that. Otherwise, taking photos off social media is no different than someone just Photoshopping any other verification image, even of themselves.

Maybe it should just be a default policy to purposely alter the people in NSFW content that’s not associated with a professional who actively claims credit for that content. It’s all the same for the NSFW punters if the people in the material are unknown, but at least this way nonconsensual content is altered to protect someone’s privacy.

And now I have some unproper thoughts about my mom, thank you.
- Freud, is that you?
  
  Freud's mom now is unlikely to raise any bonner. I'm a man of the widest standards when it comes to that, but even I don't find a corpse rotting for a century a fap material. Even in lingerie.
- I can help you make them become real. I'm good with AI.
  
  I don't feel like sending anons my mom's photo but you made me curious.
- I also choose to have improper thoughts about this guy's mom.
  
  I'd tell her she's liked by anons. I'm totally sure it won't ruin my family.

you should ask to remove the chopsticks

Ooo what's her name op? /s

Op, link please. I only found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/18zt733/i_want_to_join_in_and_have_taken_it_a_little/

time for the Voight-Kampff test to become a reality

Same person after an Instagram makeover from three years ago. So what's this nonsense post about again?
- Images on left, 20 years old. Images on right, 50.

I don't know if I just have really good eyes for a 38 year old, but I can tell at first glance, within seconds, that this photo is AI generated. It's all about the lack of humanity in the subject's eyes
- Or, and this is just a long shot, maybe you viewed the photo knowing it was AI generated and then worked backwards to create your own internal justification as to why you're uniquely gifted as detecting "humanity" in the eyes on webcam selfie photos.
  
  There's still legitimate tells, but they're not obvious if you're not aware of the mistakes these models are prone to making. There's fewer mistakes left each generation, though.
- imagine if this person is real and reads your comment and just starts crying
  
  Then we'll see if that short circuits everything.
- You can say the same on pictures of my government members.
- That's a bit harsh on Chad there.
- I didn't look that close at first but now I see the earrings blending into her face and the hoodie.
- I would definitely be deceived by this picture. I would not be able to tell at first glance but I understand about the lack of humanity around the eyes and ears.
- It's far more than her eyes, she is bilaterally asymmetrical. With real people you can generally take a reflection of one side and it will look fairly close to the other. This woman has so much asymmetry it is off-putting. Her eyes are different heights and shapes, her cheek bones are different, the outer part of her nostrils are at different heights, her lip sides are shaped differently, her jawlines are different, her suprasternal notch(the divot at the base of the neck) is WILDLY different. The easiest thing to spot is her different skin tones. At first, you'll want to chalk it up to shading, but the light source isn't to her side but in front and to the upper right, that does not allow for such a radical change if you look at her forehead.
  
  Have you never played with that tik tok filter that creates symmetrical faces? It's fun and surprising. We're all rather asymmetrical, and she doesn't look artificially so to me.
  
  AI notes: make face and body images more symmetrical, but not 100%. Got it.
  The only reason it hasn't done that yet is because it's not really AI, but large model probability with training feedback, and so far the feedback has enforced the "close enough" aspect. The next versions will cross the lines that still let us sense something isn't quite right.

233 comments