Math

Well yeah Andy Ngo does literally hang out with fascists so that's a given lol
- It was so frustrating watching some people treat him like he was anything close to a real journalist. He's just the designated propagandist.

Many issues with this headline, but one of them is the word journalist, which implies some form of neutrality. The headline should either be a L out a journalist that writes about antifa, or a pro-facism activist. I suspect from the context (Fox) that it’s the latter.
- I believe that's Andy Ngo, so yes, absolutely a pro-fascist activist. He was caught on camera actively coordinating with Patriot Prayer, a far-right extremist group.
- journalist, which implies some form of neutrality
  Oh, my sweet summer child
  
  if they're not neutral, they're not journalists. A fascist journalist is just a fascist after all.
- Unfortunately advocacy journalism is very much a legitimate type of journalism, just ask Glen Greenwald, who I fuckin' hate.

It's crazy how many people just on this meme think antifa is an actual organization. 🤦
- How else they are paying their demonstrators money for each demonstration?
  
  Soros, Bill Gates and the Bilderbergs, I guess? Probably also that Davos guy who Alex Jones et al TOTALLY aren't fixated on for antisemitic reasons either, nuh-uh!
  /s in case it isn't abundantly clear
- It's a movement, isn't it? That's still a form of organization.
  
  No it's not. It has no members. It had no leaders. It's just an idea. What do you think an organization is?
  
  People are just nitpicking the meaning of the word Organization. Antifa is an organization in a very loose definition of the word. If you want to be more accurate, you'd call it a Network. Organizations (in the stricter sense) has a single leader and has a very tree-like structure with more power on top (like Corporations!), which Antifa obviously is not.
  Though you're correct in that Antifa is a "movement".
  
  In my opinion it would be a movement if facism was the status quo. Given most people are discussing Western nations, which while adopting facism at an alarming pace; are not yet facist. Antifa is not a movement nor an organization. Since not being facist is the status quo and antifa means that you're not going to support facism, in my opinion antifa is the current "establishment" and being facist is an effort to move the status quo. Aka a movement.
- I find this comment thread horribly ironic, and I hope I can show you why without starting an argument because this is genuinely kind of funny.
  Fascism is when a state achieves (or attempts to achieve) totalitarianism through corporatization. All corporations are chartered and controlled through the state, and private industry becomes corporatized.
  One of the ways they did this was through legitimizing specific channels of distribution, and labeling all who take a more independent route as illegitimate. Farmers, for example, were coerced into selling their products to state distributors, and pressured out of independent channels. Likewise, farmers who weren't part of the state organization were often treated with suspicion and derision.
  Basically, if you were a _____ and did _____ things, but were not part of the _____ organization, then you weren't a real ______ no matter how good you are at _____.
  Anyway, antifa is a real thing that exists, and that's the thing people here are talking about. They're a group that has identifiable goals, and they work together under the label. It's really funny to me that so many here are appealing to "they're not even a real org" in the face of dissent, because that's one of the most fascist mind sets that exist commonplace today.
  
  There is a huge overlap between people who would participate in Antifa and Anarchists, so you can imagine the problems getting a structured organization setup and keeping on task and purpose.
- Lol you saying they are not? You are funny
  
  Would you like to tell me the name of the official antifa organisation?

I seem to recall seeing a video or reading an article where they mention that the media turned antifa into a sort of separate word to warp its meaning. Instead of saying anti fascist, which has a clear meaning, they shortened it and changed the pronunciation 'an teefa' (something to do with which syllable you emphasise) so they could distort its meani g and demonise the word to make people think it was bad.
So now people dont realise antifa means anti fascist which is surely a good thing to be, and instead, they fear antifa as some kind of terrorist group, which is almost the opposite of what it is.
The funny thing is, as an outsider to this, living in the UK, our media doesn't ever use the term, and when i heard it, my instinct was to look up its meaning. It's interesting to me that i won't know if i would have fallen for it if the media were using it in the same way over here to lead my understanding of its definition
- I think Antifa actually started in the UK even before the Nazi's. Eh actually not but they did fight against fascists in the UK as early as 1930.
  The reason why we need antifa and why it's hated by the mainstream is because the establishment is notoriously bad at stopping fascism. There is a long history of it. So besides liberal antifa that uses legal means like suing the KKK out of existence, the autonomous antifa is actually needed for the continued working of our democracy.
  
  Antifa (Antifaschistische Aktion) under that name started in 1932 as action by the KPD to organise widest possible front against the nazis, in the face of SPD as a party being very reluctant to act against nazis. Many SPD members did joined, but as we know, their own party in reichstag made that futile.
  Of course antifascist resistance is about as old as fascism or even older considering protofascists activity even before Mussolini coined the term, but the name itself is from 1932 KPD.
  
  Afaik, the first Antifa were a coalition of left wing groups in Italy fighting fascists in the 1920s. They didn’t necessarily use the term but they were the first active anti-fascists so that counts in my book 🤷
  As a side note, they were left to fight both the fascists and the royalists alone, since the Italian Liberals refused to get involved until it was clear who would win and then joined the fascists.
  
  But the shorthand and pronunciation Anteefa seems to be relatively new. I don't recall the specific word before 2016.
- They have a constant and desperate effort to invent words they can’t define that categorize their blind rage since they’re not allowed to say one that starts with N. “Woke” is the newest one.
- Yeah that's bullshit. There isn't some secret cabal that's in charge of US journalism anymore than there is in the UK. What really happens is that because the old news-media business models have been utterly destroyed by the Internet, there's a giant and never-ending competition for audience and everyone knows that sensationalism sells.
  You have a similar problem in the UK but it's not as pronounced because the BBC is government funded and even though it's far from perfect, it does set a kind of baseline. Your other big news organizations are just as bad as in the US though. Your tabloids are actually a lot worse than ours, which is saying something.
  
  It was donald trump himself that started it
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52868295
  And you know how.his followers hang on his every word. I mean, he literally incited a riot/assault on capitol.
  I see your point, but i dont see how the old news being taken over by internet news changes who is in control of the narrative. I also dont think i was referring to any kind of "secret cabal."
  I was only saying that i heard or read somewhere that antifa was demonised in the media, and thats why so many think they are terrorists. If you ask most americans what antifa means, they don't know. They only know the abbreviation 'antifa' and that they are scared of it.

Anti-antifa... That's just fascism with extra steps.

"Fascist journalist fears for life." I fail to see where the problem is. People would have been cheering this in 1945.
- One problem is that what they're calling him is completely inaccurate. "Journalist" implies impartiality, of at least content with a non-zero amount of truth.

Be careful when you punch a fascist. You might hurt your hand/wrist. Best to read up ahead of time.
https://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Wrist-Pain-when-Punching

Someone mentioned antifa at work the other day, and I said, "Antifa? I'm in. Shitting on fascists has been an American pass time for a century or better."
The looks of shock and horror on my coworkers faces was quite the sight to behold.
- Ignorami. They've been propagandized into hating anti-fascists, that's why they shortened it to antifa.
- Well, I can tell you, in Europe Extremist Voters switch without thinking twice between far left and far right.
  Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
  Both hate the West, especially the US and Israel, both hate the way we live but without offering a better way. Both want to burn down the house just to see who survives. Only the Arguments differ, the left hate the people running their own society, the right hate the people running other society.
  And always remember, Hitler was a National-SOCIALIST.
  
  The "Socialist" in the NSDAP is only a honeypot so they could claim ground and voters who leaned socialist without much thought ("I'm a mill worker like my father before me, we have always voted socialist. Buuut that National-Thing sounds nice"). Same with the "A" which stands for "Arbeiter" (Workers).
  There's the same with the conservative party (CDU = Christdemokratische Union, Christ-Democratic Union) today. Lots of old people say "I'm a christian and that party has a C for 'Christianity' in its name." In fact, their regional party in Bavaria, the CSU is more conservative. And you have three guesses what their "S" is for.

I'm anti-anti-antifa.
- I'm anti-anti-anti-anti-antifa.
  
  Stop it! Do you want another very long word? Cause that's how you get very long words. How do you think got the word, antidisestablishmentteroistism?! I already had to learn that word, I don't want to learn a longer one.
- That's just antifa with more steps!

It's more than just "fascist journalist". Journalists report facts (at least that is what they're supposed to do), any "blah blah journalist" is just "blah blah"
Also, fuck this guy, he doesn't fear for his life, it's just a made up story so they can again shit on those they hate.
- He doesn't fear for his life? There could have been deadly cement in that milkshake!

Isn't this the asian guy who doesn't understand that white supremacists only like white people and claimed to be suing the CEO of Antifa for damages that never actually happened?
- "the CEO of Antifa" lmao
- I thought this was Asian Elon Musk
- I'm guessing that means this is also the dude who claimed people threw cement at him, when it was a milk shake.
  Then they claimed the milkshake had cement in it, so people pointed out things like sugar would keep cement from hardening.
  Then the cops said they had no reason to assume it was concrete, and no one suggested it was, despite them and the guy being the ones who said it was concrete.
  
  Eyup, that's the guy. It was also around the time others on the right claimed that people were pouring gasoline into bags in order to make "Makeshift Molotv Cocktails"
  When
  the whole point of a Molotov Cocktail is that it's a makeshift weapon that the proletariat will always have access to as it's just alcohol and fire
  B) A plastic bag wouldn't make for a good molotov cocktail as it would just fucking disintegrate and couldn't be thrown that far of a distance, if any at all

Finally I understand what antifa means.
I am not American and have been out of the loop for years now.
- It was deliberately shortened to antifa and pronounced in a different manner to let conservative news media separate antifa from anti-fascism.
- I thought antiga was some terrorist organization until I read this meme...

Bash the fash!

Best math course I’ve taken since schooling.

Pretty sure that anti-anti-fascism is just straight-up a Nazi trope.

Reminds me of https://medium.com/@jimsnijworst/why-antifa-is-not-just-as-bad-as-nazis-a-note-from-europe-7d3717963b47

Well, only classically

I get a strong taste of sick everytime I hear someone say "math" in singular/American-English.
I know it's simplified English but it sounds so fucking lazy and stupid.
- Mathematics isn't plural. One mathematic, two mathematics?...
- You obviously know nothing about linguistics.

You can be anti something without supporting its polar opposite
- I hate people that are against fascism
  ...Totally not a fascist though
- If you are against people who are against fascists, wouldn't that indirectly say you don't care about fascism? And that's how fascism gets a foothold. And with that logic, you indirectly support fascism.
- Are you against fascism? Then you are antifa. It's not a special group, it's a movement.
- That's true in some cases, like being anti-microsoft doesn't mean I love Linux. But when you are against an ideology that opposes the othering of groups of people to the point of mass suffering and murder that's different.
  Choosing not to support a fight against Fascism is inherently in support of Fascism. The ideology uses manipulation and violence to oppress people, the end goal being a hyper capitalistic ethno state. So opposing the force which seeks to overcome fascism makes it easier for fascism to prevail.

The difference between the extreme wings is miniscule. Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
In Germany half of the voters of the Ultra-Left Party "Linkspartei" went within one election to the Ultra-Right Party "Alternative für Deutschland". Even starnger, the AfD is financed by Putin who wants to recreate Stalinism, which is Ultra-Leftist, while the AfD wants to recreate a Führer-Cult which is Ultra-Right. And still both cooperate perfectly.
But don't think the US is better. While Linkspartei and AfD together are 15% in the US the equally Extremist-Trumpists are close to 50%.
People need to understand that the Extremists on the wings are closer to each other than to the middle. While the middle tries to better things in small steps the Extremists want to burn the house down with everyone inside and then see who survives.
- Sorry, but this is just horseshoe-theory Enlightened Centrist nonsense.
  Methods? No. The far-right relies on terror, fear, and explicit power structures such as a police state to maintain power. Leftists oppose such structures, even on the ultra-left.
  Objectives? Absolutely not. Right-wingers seek to maintain Capitalism, the far-right seeks to implement fascism as a reactionary protection of Capitalist hierarchy, complete with racial and gender hierarchy. The extreme left, ie Anarchists and Communists, seek a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society based on horizontal power structures. Completely different.
  Goals? Same as objectives.
  Horseshoe theory is absolute nonsense, and is used to protect the status quo even if the status quo must be radically changed.
  
  Stalin and Pol Pot and Saddam used mostly the same methods as Hitler and as Pinochet and just like the Taliban.
  They wanted total power to reform the society to their day dreams. There is not much difference if you call your Economy Plan "Five Year Plan" or "Maximale Kriegswirtschaft". In the end everyone gets under the foot of the Big Brother, the Grosser Führer, вождь woschd (Yes, Stalin let himself call Führer as did several other Extremist leaders).
  We need to learn that the Extremists are much further away from the middle than the parties of the middle to each other. But also the Extremists are much closer to themselves.
  Even Trump and Putin show a lot of those methods and while Trump dreams of US Fascism and Putin dreams of Reviving Stalinism their Objectives are just the same: Total power for themselfes.
  Oh, I hear you already screaming "But they weren't Socialists/Fascists" - well, they were part of the Socialist International, they called themselves Socialists and people travelled there to see Socialism. "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
  The Way less extreme people defend themselves from the more extreme people is just "But they weren't true right/left wing. They were something else!" - Boy, I am so tired of it. If 99% if your ventures into Extremism always end the same then I see a pattern that the results will ALWAYS be the same.
  And seeing how easily East Germans nowadays change from Ultra-Left to Ultra-Right and visa versa I say: Proof by Observation in the Wild.
  I am not even talking about the US where 90% of the people simply don't even understand what left, right, middle, liberal and Extremism means. When giving a kid free health care is socialism and people think free voting is disrespectable liberalism.
- I don't think Lemmy is ready to hear that kind of thing.
- Extreme wings sounds like a crispy chicken dish
- Never compare me to a German again

- Antifa is antifascist.
  Antifa opinion: fascism is bad and must be opposed at every opportunity.
  Fascist opinion: extreme Nationalism, the state and the populace must be as one living organism, the enemy must be powerful enough to unite against and weak enough to feel superior, extreme statist Capitalism must take place, all rights and freedoms must be curbed in the name of an almighty state, and the state is absolute.
  These do not match up in any way.
- Youre right about one thing; the opinions of a fascist is worth less than worm shit
- Well you are at least right about fascists thinking they are always right. Which explains why you would think your first statement is right even though it couldn't be more wrong if you tried lol.

I mean that would make sense if Antifa had anything to do with fascism. It's just one of many movements wearing labels that intentionally misrepresent it's members.
It's like being anti-Patriot act and then others claiming that you're against patriotism.
You're playing into their hands.
- Love this argument.
  You wouldn’t know a fascist if it grabbed you by the pussy.
  And that’s like saying “If Black Lives Matter were actually black” or something. Antifa isn’t a group, person, or organization…it’s an idea. Much like BLM or Occupy.
  The real problem is that the idea ends up losing focus as it gains support, and then it gets spread out too far, and then it dies. Happens nearly every time.
  
  I think you are mistaking infiltration for 'getting spread out too far'.
  Nearly all of what you describe can be most easily attributed to planted agitators.
  
  Love this argument.
  Me too!
  You wouldn’t know a fascist if it grabbed you by the pussy.
  You're correct. I wouldn't. Because I don't have one.
  Antifa isn’t a group, person, or organization…it’s an idea.
  Tell that to it's supporters.
  Much like BLM or Occupy.
  Wrong again.
  The real problem is that the idea ends up losing focus as it gains support, and then it gets spread out too far, and then it dies. Happens nearly every time.
  Well unfortunately this one persists.

Anti-antifa does not subscribe to the law of the excluded middle, so double negation elimination does not apply.
EDIT: This was a math joke, but I'm proud that it seems to have gone over so many heads.
- It kinda does since, despite GOP talking points to the contrary, Antifa is not a terrorist group or even a group at all. It's a movement with the sole purpose of opposition to fascism.
  At best, being anti-antifa is being pro-fascist and the difference between that and being a fascist is miniscule if existent.
- Is this some enlightened centrism shit? Lmao

Real fascist are anti-antifa ? 🧐
- There are two separate equations. The third panel shows the negatives cancelling.

Antifa = antifascist like The Democratic Republic of North Korea is democratic.
Flip again.
- Nope. Antifascism is antifascism.
  You're an AnCap, so it's not surprising that you're a fan of redefining established words so you can LARP.
- Nah you wrong lil cuz
- Why do you say that?
  I've asked before, responses are like, "look at this video of antifas yelling at a guy! That's fascism." But that's simply not correct.
- How fucking dumb are you?
- I am against fascism, therefore I am antifa. Didn't have to join a special group with any special tenets. It's just 1+1=2.
- Exactly like that.

By that logic people who are against Focus on the Family are against families. You don't get to own a concept just by putting it in your name.
- Antifa is an ideology centered around opposing fascism. It isn't an overarching group.
- You don't get to own a concept just by putting it in your name.
  Nobody put it in their name. There is no "antifa" group. "Antifa" is a boogyman so that the far right can ignore what people are saying by labeling it "antifa".
- Against x vs
  Against what x do vs
  Against what x targets vs
  Against ideology x vs
  Against what may happen if x vs
  Against organisation x and so on
  These are not identical things
  Being against fascism is not the same as being against some organisation that does bad things
  Antifa is not an organisation. It's an idea Just neatly contained to being against fascism
- I'm against Mothers Against Drunk Driving but I'm anti drunk driving.
- Focus on the family is a hate group that burns down cities.
  They don't care about any families, even if it's in their title.
  
  I hate Focus on the Family, but...they burned down a city?
- Ouch! You should stop applying logic to anything. Forever.

Not really there are anti antifa centrists and leftists that are simply against extremist movements. At least where i live antifa is pretty militant so people basically group it with the fascists which is pretty ironic if you think about it. A long time ago i was also anti antifa but seeing the lenghts that "conservatives" go to fuck up everything we love im also swinging to a more violent leftism.
- This is a wording error, a lot of people fell for. Antifa only means you are against fascism and nothing more.
  More simpler? If you aren't a fascist, you are antifa!
  
  You would think so, but the people on my region that call themselfs "antifa" are fasist themselves. No tolerant on who you are or how you look if you are a "white straight male". So yea, fuck the antifa organization. Im all anti facism starting with them.
- At least where i live antifa is pretty militant
  You're full of shit. Show me an article of your "militant antifa". If it's as bad as you say someone will be reporting on it.
  
  Mainstream media would kill to get the scoop on this.
- An "anti-anti fascist centrist". What the hell!?
  
  Centrist Nazis, you know, like "I don't want to kill them all, I just want them to.... Not... Be... Here... Anymore..."

I don't support fascisms, but I also don't support violence and property damage to get the message across. I will never take a "movement" seriously that uses vandalism to get a message across.
- In that case, I suppose you also oppose the Civil Rights Movement, considering it too was often violent and had a significant amount of property damage.
  
  I would oppose their methods, not the movement (ideology, cause call it what you want)
- Yeah, Hitler would have stopped if somebody just asked him nicely. I don't like violence either, but you can't defeat fascism without actions.
- I will never take a "movement" seriously that uses vandalism to get a message across.
  "I'm all for trying to protect people and save lives, but you used vandalism!" Clutches pearls in a death grip
  
  Whose life got saved by Antifa?
  
  What about violence? Murder? Mass Murder? Where would you draw the line, which reaction is out of proportion?
- I also don’t support violence and property damage to get the message across
  so, you condemn the boston tea party, right?
  I will never take a “movement” seriously that uses vandalism to get a message across.
  what's your favorite successful social movement from history that didn't use any vandalism to get a message across?
  
  I do. Oh violence worked in the past ( and we all know how good the past was) sol let's do it now too, in the 21st century.
- Fuck the liberation of second world war etc
  
  That was a war, the violent resistance was against a hostile occupation, not a social issue.
- Show us on the doll where Aunt Tifa touched you.
- Cooperate wants you to find the difference:
  Storming the capitol
  Violent Antifa protests
  
  One is an attempt to overthrow democracy and install a fascist theocratic dictatorship. The other is protesting directly against that. While you may not agree with their methods, which is frankly childish and placing the responsibility for our social climate in the laps of the oppressed, you cannot in good faith smile smugly and say "same".

Anti-antifa only means you're against the people claiming to be anti-fascist. It doesn't mean you like fascism. Nor does being antifa mean everything you're against is fascism.
- I think it should be noted, the difference between antifa the organization and antifa the philosophy.
  I am very much ideologically anti-fascist and I believe I would take up arms against a fascist government, however antifa the org has made some questionable calls in the past.
  
  There is no overarching antifa organization though. Try looking for a website/forum/etc of antifa. There are websites for random local activist groups which call themselves antifa, but there is no leader or comittee overseeing these groups. There is no process to join antifa, any activist group or individual can call themselves antifa.
  So there are no calls made by antifa, good or bad. There are only calls made by individuals or local groups that call themselves antifa.
  
  Where is "antifa the organization" headquartered?

What's a fascist mean to you nerds anyways? Like what does it even mean to be anti fascist?
- Here's a list of The 14 common characteristics of fascism. Note that the GOP and their propaganda outlets such as Faux News exhibit every single one of them.
  THAT'S what it means to be a fascist.
- Hey I recognize you. You show up all over JAQing off and concern trolling.
  
  All I see is "There is no record of this comment."
  Pretty weird, considering I only bother blocking fascists. Wonder why they're interested in this topic.
  
  I'm kind of famous around here thanks
- Quoting Georgi Dimitrov:
  "Fascism is not a form of state power "standing above both classes – the proletariat and the bourgeoisie," as Otto Bauer, for instance, has asserted. It is not "the revolt of the petty bourgeoisie which has captured the machinery of the state," as the British Socialist Brailsford declares. No, fascism is not a power standing above class, nor government of the petty bourgeoisie or the lumpen-proletariat over finance capital. Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations.... The development of fascism, and the fascist dictatorship itself, assume different forms in different countries, according to historical, social and economic conditions and to the national peculiarities, and the international position of the given country."
- confused tucker carlson face

this is the kind of black and white thinking lemmy does best.
EDIT: i retract this statement. i was wrong
i was severely misinformed about what antifacism is. i was under the impression that "the antifa" was a group by itself instead of a mindset.
- You're not pro-fascist, you're just against people trying to stop the fascists. Thank god for nuance.
  
  i hate fascists with a passion, but i might not agree with how antifa acts. i do not have any experience with the group itself, i might even agree with them.
  for example, i do not like how the last generation glued themselves to streets. that doesn't make me a climate denier, does it?
  EDIT: it seems i misunderstood what antifa is. i always saw it as "the group of violent extremist protesters that throw rocks and light up cars"
  again, i am fully for doing everything i can against fascists. but violent protests don't contribute, all it does is make your movement the next boogeyman.