Poignant post on the state of things
Poignant post on the state of things
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348 评论
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Abolish corporations
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So only billionaires can own any type of the means of production? This is an exceptionally dumb take.
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Billionaires shouldn't exist. Everything after $999,999,999 should be taxed 100%. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to ever have a billion dollars. All that tax could pay for universal health care, free education, ending hunger, and homelessness. Billionaires are the problem.
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That, and a land tax
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Do billionaires actually have billions of dollars cash?
Everything after $999,999,999 should be taxed 100%.
This implies it's income, although if it's taken as assets + unrealized gains then that would be very cool. Each year, anyone with cash + assets over $999,999,999 will get a bill from the IRS for the entirety of the overage. That would put sell pressure on real estate and stocks while funding (hopefully) social programs. Sounds like a good solution.
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Either they are billionaires or they are not billionaires. Which is it?
If it's all stock options, then redistribute their stock options.
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The way net worth works, if I understand it correctly, is like this:
Take Bob for example. If Bob has $100M in his checking account, 4 houses worth $100M each, and 500,000 shares of NILE (the company he owns) which are each worth $1,000 each, then it's said his net worth is a billion dollars. He's Bob the Billionaire.
Say he starts selling his NILE shares, but he has so much that each sale puts downward pressure on the price (and spooks investors) so that instead of cashing out for the full $500M he only gets $400M for the sale. Then his net worth is $900M and he's no longer a billionaire.
Or say Costa Rica invades his country and both the stock market and real estate markets crash. He's not Bob the Billionaire anymore, he probably has just the $100M now.
After writing that example it seems a better threshhold would be $100M, lol. Here's a good visualization of the resources under the control of Jeff Bezos.
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The first question is why the fuck does Bob have four houses, and the second would be how is it that people like Bob are easily able to become billionaires only since the Reagan administration? Certainly Bob did not actually work for this money, all those shares, for all four of those houses. That amount of wealth is far beyond what any reasonably productive person could possibly earn. The only possibilities for him to have all of that is either through nepotism, inheritance, or corruption. If he is gaining that wealth by being given stock options and then borrowing money against those stock options and then using tax write-offs to not pay that money back, then Bob is stealing from his company, the country, and his employees.
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So, no corporations and no individual wealth? Who owns a factory or a datacenter? These are fantastically expensive things. A chip foundry cannot exist under these conditions.
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$999,999,999
no individual wealth
I don't think you have a strong enough concept of large numbers to be able to hold a respectable opinion here.
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Lmao brutal, but -1 for ad hominem.
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That's fair. I chose violence.
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You didn't answer the question though.
Who owns a factory or a datacenter? These are fantastically expensive things. A chip foundry cannot exist under these conditions.
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It could be owned by, like, multiple people? Also, a lot of companies in the world, and especially the ones managing costly infrastructure assets, are owned by states (which are a form of "multiple people").
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Multiple people working together with 1 goal? Like a .... Company?
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Yes, a company which shares the results of it's efforts between all involved and not one person or family.
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So a company whose ownership is open to the public, with that ownership divided into "shares". And all the "share" holders can cooperate to decide the direction of the company...what would one call this novel form of organizing a venture...a "cooperation"?
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Only open to the Workers, not the public, and it's a Worker Co-operative. An existing Socialist organizational structure, not new.
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Do you think shareholders want their money going to extravagent buildings, Italian desks, and billions in hoarded cash?
Your view of "shareholders" is that they are just cash cows to be milked and not financial participants. As a shareholder I gained fourteen cents this year; how much did the CEO gain?
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Fcking lol
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Workers own the factory. Collectively. Through democratic process of any variety.
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In those situations what do the workers that have no interest in owning the means of production do? Like, if you just want to do your job and go home, is there still room for you under that system? Or does it require active participation from every worker?
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Do you think Capitalist owners can't just do their job and go home? Do you even think Capitalist Owners work?
If Workers share ownership, they can hold electoral councils, elect a manager, or do any other form of decision making without requiring constant input.
Do you actively participate in every company you own in your S&P 500 ETF?
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Ooooooookaaaaayyyyy. You are more interested in feeling attacked and defending your ego than discussing praxis. I'm not interested in that.
Also lmao thinking I own stock.
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No, I'm not. I was genuinely asking questions here, I was not intending on being confrontational. I'm not even who you originally replied to.
Even if you personally don't own stock, do you imagine everyone who owns a share of VOO makes decisions for every company in the S&P 500? That's my point, ownership isn't necessarily management, just entitlement to control and profit.
If Workers collectively own a factory, they may choose to vote on how to produce, or vote on a manager. The point is leaving it to the Workers to decide, rather than a dictatorial owner, ie a Capitalist.
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I'm not even who you originally replied to.
Yes I noticed, which makes it even weirder that you are asking about my knowledge about capitalist systems and my personal opinions, which have zero relevance to the question.
do you imagine everyone who owns a share of VOO makes decisions for every company in the S&P 500?
I still have no idea what this has to do with a system where the workers own the means of production.
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It is entirely relevant. By asking what a worker would do if they don't want to contribute to actively managing a company, you are demonstrating a lack of understanding how Capitalist systems function. You're implying Capitalist owners actively contribute and manage the companies they own. Owning stocks and thus a portion of companies doesn't mean you're an active manager, it just entitles you to voting power proportional to your ownership.
If workers owned the Means of Production, then they collectively have voting power, but a worker that does not wish to use said voting power would act just as any other Capitalist that does not wish to exert their power would do: Collect profit and maintain their current power.
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They get a part of the company's gains regardless because they are workers.
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Simple. That sounds really good.
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348 评论