These communities are not even hosted on lemmy.world, this is an absurdly overreacted response. There were no signs of any legal trouble and I can't understand how lemmy.world specifically would be the target of such legal action. If you want to host an instance, you should do everything in your power to allow discussions on any topic, while in necessary cases disallowing direct posting/linking of illegal content. Instead, you chose to block a community that has long been known to avoid having any trouble with the moderators.

Please make announcements on lemmy instead of exclusively on discord moving forward. That is the biggest issue here, the lack of public transparency. Such a decision affects all instances, not just lemmy.world and making it publicly known is important

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Uh, @lwadmin@lemmy.world .. what's up with the banning going on in this thread? I noticed on a.lemmy.org that someone was labeled "banned" and their comment was simply "Ight, I’m out"

The mod note was "Let us help you".

There are more similarly weak (spiteful?) bans that certainly don't seem to be at a standard for a ban. "Litterally 1984" was another one. Is that all it takes to be banned here?

Edit: Many (all?) the users I referenced as banned are now unbanned from the site, but now banned from this community.

Reading all these comments it's clear that a lot of people have unrealistic ideas regarding what Lemmy and the Fediverse are supposed to be (or maybe it's me with weird ideas).

The Fediverse is just a bunch of apps that can all communicate with each other through a shared protocol. There is no requirement for them to be free speech platforms or host everything. The whole purpose of defederation supports the idea that instances are free to associate or disassociate with whichever instances they want. Furthermore, nearly every guide I read on joining Lemmy state that you should choose instances to join based on shared ideals/beliefs.

For everyone saying "I'm leaving lemmy.world" I say "Good. That's what you're supposed to do." When the instance you join no longer aligns with what you want, you go to another instance and then you'll be back to viewing all the communities you want to see. That is what the Fediverse is all about and how it's designed.

What part is illegal? Are they sharing files on that instance and your instance re-hosts it?

From my understanding, discussions are legal, guides are legal, tips are legal, but actual files (aka "copyrighted content") is illegal. There are no files shared there, links at maximum, but institutions should be after those content-sharing websites, not forums.

I am against this decision and I am happy that I am not part of admins team.

And still people are crying about this.

You can literally change to another instance. That's the entire point of the Fediverse. If you don't like a decision the admin has taken, you can move elsewhere.

The entitlement of some people these days is ridiculous.

Surely there is a discussion to be had around what is and isn't allowed, there are plenty of subreddits discussing piracy without dolirect links that are playing within the rules.

The fact that there was no announcement before the banning of the communities is not great, but good on you for acknowledging that mistake.

It's unfortunate that this action had to be done, but it's also understandable. It's not about what's right or wrong, and it's not even about whether there actually is any illegal content in these communities. It's about the fact that the Big Entertainment Companies don't care about the difference and see it ALL as bad, irregardless of whether it actually is illegal or not. If the admin team had a legal team and the financial security to fight back, then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But they're not, they're just a bunch of regular folks, so they're being cautious and trying to pre-emptively prevent these problems from coming up, especially as Lemmy continues to grow every day.

The beauty of the Fediverse is that you can always switch instances or make an alt account.

While I'm not ethically opposed pirating, I understand and would probably do the same for a server I was hosting. Anybody remember Kim Dotcom's mansion raid?

What I do not understand is blocking a community surrounding magic mushrooms.. No one is going to prosecute the L.W admins for people discussing shrooms/their use...

Substances are legal/illegal depending on where one lives, just like weed which is apparently perfectly fine to post here, even tho possession is a death sentence in some countries.

It simply doesn't logically follow that weed, or even alcohol communities are permissible while a shroom community is not.

Banning any content deemed illegal in any country in the world establishes a very dangerous precedence (if that's the justification here). Free speech/dissenting from the government is illegal in many places in the world.

One thing the community must remember tho, is that you have to operate your server in accordance with the law in which country you're hosting it (in this case Germany).

I'll gladly admit I'm not too familiar with German law, but it seems unreasonable to expect government persecution for hosting servers which hosts a shroom discussion community.

Oh no. Wtf. Do you know what's funny? I actually joined this instance from piracy subreddit.

I guess it's time to leave.

I don't understand why people are upset even a little about this. This is a prefect advert for the fediverse. If you are not completely happy with an instance(which can never realistically happen) then you just host your own or have multiple accounts. Apps have this built in and easily accessible. Why do people want to concentrate everything they want into one instance? What if that instance goes down? This should not be hated or applauded.... just ignored as the way the fediverse should work. Don't get too attached to any single instance.

Thanks for only banning the communities and not the entire instance as a whole. That is a much healthier approach to deferation.

Lovely this happened because someone complained after being banned from the piracy instance for being a transphobic asshole.

The people whining are not the people that could face multimillion-dollar lawsuits over the issue. Like it or not, media companies are powerful and will go after websites seen as promoting piracy. Do what you reasonably have to do.

Ight, I'm out

Even if we look past the issue that all of this was in response to a 10h troll account, there was no cease and desist, no threat of a lawsuit, nothing credible AT ALL.

Let's ignore all of that and say there was, it still means this instance is completely ill equipped to provide any sort of resistance, to something trivial.

It's like it's hosted in the middle of Illinois, by John Frank, at 3125 maple lane... Zero layers of protection.

That is awful and means no meaningful discussion can ever happen here. Nevermind piracy, what if people want to criticize the government? Or public figures?

If this instance can't fight a fake troll it can't fight and protect anything.

Which means we need to pool resources and fund instances that can and will fight back.

And yes that means fundraising to build up a defense fund and hosting outside the US etc.

I think a this is a bigger issue then just .worlds stance on piracy. Lemmy.world has put it self forward as the "front page of lemmy" but has now also removed one of the largest community using lemmy. And did so with no input on a discord server (not on any instance). This front page status was already shakey with all the down time and clunk. This seems like maybe not the best side to show new users.

Time to host my own instance. I disagree with this move.

"Alright let's all be adults about th--"

reads comments

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Time to switch instances

It's a tough decision.

There's a target on the collective back of Lemmy, its developers and this instance. Rooting out these issues early is part of it. One of my first recommendations to @ruud@lemmy.world was to start putting aside contribution dollars from donors for a legal fund to manage liabilities like this. This decision is just solid management and avoiding issues well ahead of time.

I wish the admins well. And for those who have had their communities 'snipped' from being connected to Lemmy.world, I hear you. It's hard when you have built a connection and a sense of self on a platform, and then it becomes severed. That's hard.

You're not allowed to discuss piracy. You wouldn't talk about stealing a car would you?

Delete this.

QQ: Have there been other communities removed and was it communicated?

I have just realized that c/Shrooms has been banned too, but I cannot find a statement regarding this particular ban.

Are or will there be more bans? I am not asking to complain about it or make remarks about which the decision is correct to me or not, but rather point out the lack of communication or unfortunate communication.

So which instance do I switch to to evade this corpo Reddit bullshit?

I can understand this. This is a server hosted by an individual who doesn't want the potential legal headaches that may arise. Everyone is free to make another account on another instance, or create their own instance.

Y'all realize that saying things like "You've just lost a user!" or "Deleting my account!" or "This is now the worst instance on Lemmy!"... you sound like a Karen telling the kid at the register in CVS that she's leaving a bad Yelp review... right? Y'all seeing this? Am I going crazy here?

Seems overly cautious, or lemmy.world is trying to find excuses to cut off content they don't like. Legal trouble for allowing access to those communities, which aren't even based on lemmy.world, would be so much of an overstep, they'd probably be able to get free legal counsel from the EFF or a similar organization.

Anyways, this will be my last post on this server. Even though I don't use any of those communities, I don't want to have to constantly monitor what has been banned to see what I may miss out on.

Apparently, lemmy.world also removed c/shrooms, which I didn't even know about. And again, risk of legal trouble for that would be extremely low.

I do understand that you would remove them if they were also hosted here... But they are hosted on other instances so I don't understand the issue? Is linking to that specific instance via comment the same issue as if they were visible for everyone on this instance? Or even mentioning it now in the OP like it is?

Oh no! Users are complaining and downvoting. They just need to get inline and do what they're told. Okay for real, you people are worst type of people. Lemmy users are just showing their disapproval of the action. They have the right to do.

Do those communities house copyright content? The answer is no. Having discussions, giving guides & tips are are legal. So I don't see the problem. If someone going to get sued for it. It will be dbzer0.com and lemmy.ml due to said communities being part of the instances not LW.

Aight peace ✌️ you do you. Gonna go sail my ship over to another instance.

What is the legal theory being used here?

People chatting about piracy is now a crime in US? I thought the crime was uploading or downloading copyrighted content...

I can still access r piracy on Reddit, i thought lemmy.world had more freedom of speech than corporate sellouts. 💀

First off, lemme just say that I left reddit because I was sick of the site bowing more to a corporate end than listening to the people and being somewhat reasonable. Lemmy.world is now guilty of that. I genuinely dunno how much longer I'll stay around this instance if this is the type of administration we see at the start.

Second, there is no situation in which lemmy.world could be considered legally responsible for that of another instance, allowing access to them or not. Merely blocking the instance in its entirety shows a disgusting amount of overreach on behalf of the administrators. The whole point of the fediverse is to NOT cut oneself off from everything, but lemmy.world keeps showing that it is willing to do so time and time again.

This is a bit concerning… why is Lemmy censoring things that not even Reddit is censoring? This seems like a bleak warning for the future of the platform. I understand censoring illegal content, but if nothing is hosted on Lemmy, then what’s the problem?

Honestly fuck off. I came to Lemmy because I'm sick of people telling me what I can view and how I can view it. Guess I'll go find another instance again.

I am strongly opposed to the way this is handled. Discussing piracy may not be censored in any way and being afraid of shady lawsuits is not good, this is one of the main responsibilities of a server admin of such a grand operation. Especially so for what is effectively an image board which is grey zoning on copyright all the time. It is fine to ban communities who direct link to well known piracy sites, both because of the legal and perhaps ethical complications this brings.

We need now more than ever platforms where we defend basic freedoms as discussion of hot topics. I view the negative impact of this as banning discussion on drugs. Disclaimers about dangers and help lines for addiction should be forced, as the banning of purchase options, however please stay out of experiences, discussions and warnings on them.

Unfortunate, but I understand the necessity of avoiding legal troubles as a volunteer group.

The copyblight strikes again.

This decision was the logical one, however, it was only rendered logical because of the awful state of copyright law.

I'm no fan of piracy - just seems like a pretty name for petty theft to me - but this decision seems problematic. I went and read some of the threads about this decision on some of the other communities, including dbzer0, and I looked around the blocked communities on an alt account.

I'm not seeing evidence of actual copyrighted material posted, just discussions about how to steal content, which itself isn't illegal. And there's a pretty fair amount of content - the communities are active - so if there was a violation I feel like it should be handled as the exception it appears to be. Those communities themselves don't allow posting of copyrighted content, so it shouldn't be a problem to get a violation removed. If someone posted an image that contained child pornography to one of the NSFW communities, would we block the whole community, or just get that post removed (and alert the authorities)? The latter, I hope.

They also make a good case that the action was taken in response to a troll on a newly-created account who didn't provide any evidence of there being copyrighted material. That in itself seems like a problem, though maybe someone looked into it? I'm pretty supportive of the .World admins, I think you're doing a good job in a difficult situation, but I believe these communities should be unblocked unless there is an actual problem.

Any suggestions on instances to move over to?

How does Reddit get away with hosting these communities without the mentioned issues?

What are your thoughts on communities about drugs? Pretty big topic for me, although the drug subs mostly haven't moved here yet, is that because you ban them? If so, I'm wasting my time waiting for them here.

What the absolute hell? What makes this place so good is that there’s not people making idiot decisions at the top. This is an idiot decision. Plus side of the fediverse is vanishing.

Not with me. Pirating for personal use is perfectly legal in my country.

Do we have an account migration tool yet and can somebody recommend a nice instance?

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I don't understand how lemmy world has removed them, aren't those all communities on different servers? How is this our problem?

is this the new most downvoted post on lemmy?

While I wish there was more transparency about this decision before action was taken, in this case it's kind of understandable due to the servers being hosted in Germany and them having really draconian piracy laws. Just hoping that this won't lead to a chain reaction of other communities being removed due to legal complaints.

In the meantime, happy to get my piracy content over at db0.

This is why Lemmy won't grow, a lot of instances are forcing their users to create another account on other instances, this was my third account due to the blocking of some instances like this...

Time to get serious about running my own instance. I now have to wonder what kind of political opinion I might voice which could make the instance operators liable. This is not tolerable long-term.

Ahhhh right, we are now one step closer to become the new reddit…

I kinda do understand their stance, it sucks but its better than having to deal with legal shit.

From what I can see it is informational only. There is no direct content linking, this does not sound illegal.

Just to put my two cents: Thanks for the good work. Continue keeping up to make sure lemmy.world won’t be liable in any way for possible issues.

I did not know you can defederate from specific communities. I thought it can be done only to instances.

There is a local piracy-focused community at !piracy@lemmy.world. It's pretty dead, of course, only 4 posts ever, but still. How does this square with those others being blocked?

You have won my goodwill with your track record of decisions so far. I don't agree with this one, but it is not a dealbreaker for me. Thank you for getting around to announcing this in a public space, but as you say, please make sure to do this first next time something of this caliber is put through.

I‘m absolutely pro pirated software, as in many cases DRM violates many personal rights, so this decision will lead to the deletion of my account. I never support censorship. Gbye.

I can't believe you've done this.

Goodbye y’all I’m out

are platforms liable for user behavior?

Not even Reddit banned their r/piracy

Didn't even know an instance could block a specific community of another instance. I thought the only option was defederation. Is there any way to see/list the communities blocked by an instance?

Pathetic. Defeats the entire point if federated networks.

This is how lemmy is going to fail with the entire thing being fragmented mess. Which is sad as I was hoping it would be the proper exit plan for Reddit.

And once again we have people thinking that the instance owners would have to discuss everything they want to do with them and get the approval of everyone. It's already great that they're making announcements instead of doing it silently until people notice on their own. Plus, it's not hard to make an account elsewhere if you don't like it here. I doubt you're restricted to this single instance.

Unpinned hoping this goes away?

👎

So, in order to subscribe to those communities I should create another account in a different instance that either has them or is federated with them, right….? Any workaround for that? This sounds like it’s going to be a real chore to follow and will push a lot of people out of lemmy in general

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I wish people would be more mature about their reaction to this, as well as other people's reactions, regardless of whether they agree or disagree with the choice.

I'm not opposed to piracy, though I understand the risks that come with a platform allowing potentially pirated content. While I respect the decision and see the reasoning behind it, I don't agree with it, and will likely change my home instance to one that allows me to continue communicating with those communities, as I was subscribed to one of them.

I'll still be participating in communities hosted here, and I hope that with this decision, the admins' concern about being potentially sued is substantially alleviated.

Is there any way to migrate accounts to other instances yet?

Thank you for the update!

Boooo

I don't begrudge your decision. To me this comes down to a question of if you're willing to be on the hook for a multi million dollar lawsuit, even if you'd definitely win in the end. It's still an expensive process.

I sure as hell am not willing to do that, so I'm not going judge other people who aren't willing either. I wish more people would look at it from this perspective.

By design, this isn't Reddit. We didn't want to be at the whims of their bullshit CEO and corporation. Unfortunately, that's also exactly who can afford to have legal squabbles and not go bankrupt. This is just a natural consequence of having a community run space vs a corporate one.

This is a prime example of why I suspect we'll see a lot more lemmy instances with a more narrow focus over time instead of just a few super lemmys. Its only keeping them indexed that will be a problem so that they can be found.

WTF. Time to go. See ya.

What. The. Fuck.

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Reddit 2.0...already migrating off this censorship.

You can use LASIM app (Windows/Mac/Linux) to migrate your profile and settings to another instance. Highly recommend.

Is it a liability when the discussion happened outside of lemmy.world?

Oh well, there goes the removal of my monthly donation.

Well that was a stupid thing to do.

Yeah fuck off im out of here.

If you're looking to avoid all "problematic" content, you better shut down the service right now.

removed again wtf

time to migrate change instance shit.

I don’t think this was the right call. Don’t have it hosted on here, fine. But defederated? I don’t see how being federated would be an issue at all. Oh well guess i got to actively go seek them out now.

At this rate, you might as well as defederate from all instances. Cant be too careful.

Besides the downvoting, there is not much blind disagreement comments here, nor agreement ones. Definitely a comment section worth reading. Fair points of views on both sides.

It's arguable, but that's what federation is about. No default instance, you pick those you want to participate in and agree with, and their admins have their choices too. It's neat.

Pre-emptively hitting my last resort button

What surprises me is that people think making a community specifically for illegal activity isn't a problem, and that they should only be called on their behaviour when a copyright holder notices them. There are plenty of places to go for piracy online, so what's the need to add a community for it here? Or are you people claiming a piracy community wasn't primarily intended for piracy?

You either die a hero...

The piracy communities don't allow linking to pirated content and have broken no rules. This was tyrannical.

lemmy.world has become reddit.

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I think you need to make rule 1 more specific or create a rule for this specific issue. When I read rule 1 it seems vague but I might have a bias.

Speaking of having a bias, I don't think the liability is that big of an issue but I also understand that it is your instance to do what you want.

Thank you for being transparent and understanding that you made a mistake in not engaging the community first.

Wonder if this has to do with Piracy instance being listed as the largest lemmy community a few days back. Guess it might attract the wrong kind of attention.

Thank you for the update, and thank you for working hard to keep the gates to the Fediverse open.

Sorry you're getting so much flack from folks who don't understand how federation works.

I believe most will understand in time, and go on to become valuable additions to the Fediverse.

Hang in there, and know that the many of understand and appreciate what you're doing.

Personally, I believe copyright should last five years max, but I understand this is merely a hypothesis and not everyone has to agree, but that's the beauty of mankind. Additionally, the beauty of the Fediverse is anyone is capable of finding their own safe haven which shares their views =)

I suspect this won't be a popular opinion, but it seems strange to me that a lot of people are making a fuss about lemmy.world blocking communities that literally advocate for illegal practices. If you disagree with lemmy.world blocking piracy communities, where should they draw the line? Allow literally any community to be created irrespective of the legality of what its advocating for? I would presume (and hope) that you wouldn't have a problem with lemmy.world blocking CP communities for example?

The Fediverse can't function as a free-for-all. It has to have rules, and instances have to be able to police those rules for the betterment of the whole.

I'm very conflicted about this. On one hand, it's kind of bullshit to take this level of action on something that can be handled on a case-by-case basis, when the need arises.

On the other hand, I'd prefer to see Lemmy avoid the reputation that Mastodon has garnered with the activities that are vastly under moderated there. With the size that some instances are reaching obviously there needs to be a level of discretion towards the content you will allow.

It's, however, a slippery slope from protecting the community to accepting bribes for exclusive access to your user base.

"Due to moral objections, we've decided to block this meme community. However here's an alternative that will show you advertisements disguised as funny memes! They even have most of the same content as the old one! Enjoy!"

Don't let that become reality.

Stop blocking things. Piracy is ethical

Thanks for the links. I didn't know about these great communities (mostly because I didn't look ;) )

Awfully silly decision.

The last paragraph clearly shows you have absolutely no idea why people are upset.

@lwadmin, you are probably not the first people trying to sort out an issue like this.

Can the hosting for lemmy.world be moved somewhere where privacy laws are stronger and be payed using privacy crypto like XMR?

Would probably secure lemmy.world from more then just the piracy lawsuits, other stuff as well.

Maybe Njalla?

https://njal.la/about/

Thanks mom, is there anything else you want to protect our poor little eyes from?

Thank you for this update and your work!

It was sad to see the level of hostility displayed in some of the threads yesterday.

You are still doing a great job as the most public facing instance, and it's good to hear you noticed the request for more transparency.

Take care!

Yeeeep. I stopped using my LW account once you people simped to Facebook federation.

If you're going to ban piracy you should also ban all pro copyright communities and comments, it's only fair.

good thing I followed the advice not to use lemmy.world lol

Can you also put the reason for the block on the blocklist so I can more easily see what ones to avoid? I appreciate you calling them out in the post btw, those rascals!

Personally, I think this was a terrible decision and I think it's abundantly clear you will lose users for this. I used this as the reason to self host my own instance. Good luck.

All the people saying just change instances, I would and will but this being the biggest instance and calling itself the front-page of Lemmy. This sets a precedent for banning things capitalism doesn't support with out even talking to your user base. And I disapprove.

Why is this not called "copyright infringement" anymore again? Where did the sea pirate association start?

This goes against the principles of the fediverse, I'd expect content censorship from the likes of reddit and twitter. This feels like a knee-jerk reaction to a problem that doesn't exist on communities from completely different instances (and judging by the backlash this decision came out of nowhere without consultng the community). I seriously urge you to reconsider this decision.

Absolutely understandable decision. I would have done the same.

I don't think this is a lemmy.world problem as much as it's a Fediverse problem. Assuming that the only reason to block these communities is legal safety, we should figure out what is legally unsafe and see if that can be enforced on the piracy communities, or everyone in the Fediverse could also be at risk and should block these communities.

I know that the piracy communities themselves are already taking these kinds of measures to make sure they are not unsafe, so if anything is found we should solve it together. If push comes to shove, I suspect that piracy communities would rather restrict themselves than risk taking a stand and endangering others. It's not that big of a deal to skirt legal concerns while still being a useful piracy resource - /r/piracy existed in much the same state.

👎🏿👎🏿 BOO! 👎🏿👎🏿

👎🏿👎🏿 BOO! 👎🏿👎🏿

👎🏿👎🏿 BOO! 👎🏿👎🏿

Pathetic

grabs popcorn

• me, a lemmy.dbzer0.com native

Thats why you all should chose an another instance.

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Bwhahahahaha Reddit is more liberated than Lemmy, what a fucking embarrassment.

What's the line, self-censorship is the first sign an authoritarian has won.

Probably enough for me to jump ship. The performance on this instance is a sack of shit anyways 👋

Just had a look there and they're talking about the removals too, someone commented saying the word 'bitch' is censored here too?

Are there any Lemmy instances that have a policy against any censorship? I'd rather use one that doesn't defederate or censor anything.

make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.

Really happy to hear this. Thank you!

I have an idea. How about all of the complainers go and start your own instance and allow whatever you want. When you have 100k users good luck sleeping.

How the fuck do i change instance on Sync?

ITT a bunch of fuckheads who don't understand how federation works, and thinks that lemmy should be a free-for-all with infinite 'freedom of speech'

Jesus, go host your own instances, there's literally nothing stopping you. it's as easy as editing a config file and running a single command. Why people find defederation some major sleight i'll never understand.

Screw this, I'm out.

What the HECK is with the people complaining and downvoting... some of the things that struck me as weird about the lemmy.world community are coming into sharp focus. @lwadmin transparency and responsiveness is fine and admirable, but you don't owe these people anything lol

Because you're so scared of corporate lawsuits you may as well defederate from any union-positive instances as well.

Just to mitigate risk of corporations that wouldn't appreciate it at all. Never know when you might get sued.

Guess they deserved it because were too subtle in naming.

This sort for reminds me of a Sybil attack.

I think it’s a good idea for everyone to register at an obscure Lemmy instance. If everyone’s on lemmy.world, it isn’t truly federated.

Reddit allows piracy communities. These Lemmy communities aren’t hosted on your servers. That’s the whole thing - dbzer0.com and lemmy.ml are taking the risks, though there probably aren’t many risks in the first place.

Thanks for reminding us how much your instance sucks.

Definitely think you should allow them again. Obviously not on your instance but restricting access to other instances is just not right. I do understand the concern though, I really hope in the end you realllow them.

Boo. Fie and Shame upon your house.

Shame! Shame! Shame!

Test

WTF, that's definitely a reason to immediately switch to another instance.