I've seen it happen numerous times rule
I've seen it happen numerous times rule
One time it wasn't a bigot, but an old guy taking creepshots of college girls on the light rail
Edit: If you're going to argue against my meme, then why don't you tell me what you expect me to do when I see someone hurling epithets and slurs against brown people or trans people, or homophobes calling me a "faggot" and spitting at me? Just sit there on my hands like a useless log?
And moreover, if you've come here from other instances for the sole purpose of calling me names, I'm going to report that shit and message your instance admins. There is NOTHING about my post or comments that is attacking or insulting anyone, unless you're a creep or a bigot.
I'm not going to sit idly by while others cause harm.
Remember to always stand up for what's right. Ignore the ignorant people who tell you not to. They're part of the problem.
This is an essential part of mutual aid
While I'm a big fan of community action against bigotry and fascism (cable street based), I still don't have it clear in my head about how best to structure society to protect those without power. If you have a police force then inevitably it's going to serve the needs of the wealthy; if you don't then community justice is often also likely to favour those with more power.
It's not like I have a clear grasp either, and anyone who says they do is being either arrogant or dishonest.
But one thing that comes to mind is diffuse sanctions. Scroll down to the secion on "decisions" -- it's a pretty easy read imo, with lots of examples -- also, I'm just posting this to try to be helpful, not to argue -- peace <3
Also, keep in mind that many of the societal problems we experience may not always be caused by the state and hierarchies, but are certainly greatly exacerbated by them. There will always be those few that seek to cause harm however, and that's why it's important to keep in mind that you can't just let someone like an ax murderer, neoliberal, or others who seek to cause harm and oppress others, continue to do so. There will always be those few who need experience community pushback or even exile. But I think that's something that would happen very rarely, once you've esablished an equitable community based on principles such as horizontality and mutual aid.
I'm trying to parse my own thoughts though, so this is just my thinking so far. There are so many different anarchist theories, that it's hard to be dogmatic about one or another, and probably counter-productive to try.
But back to my meme: Experiencing this at least gives me hope that perhaps given the right circumstances, most people are willing to step up and do the right thing. And like I said, this wasn't just a one-off, but something I've seen happen repeatedly. To be specific, I've seen it happen most often on the light rail between Lake Street and Downtown in Minneapolis.
I don't think that the last part is true. Community justice (even) in our broken society doesn't really favor the powerful. The gut reaction I see is to help the underdog in a situation, not the oppressor. Sometimes an individual read of a situation can be complicated, leading to mistaken outcomes, but the intent is to end the negative situation.
Tangentially that makes me think about the difference in intent. A group of people expelling a bigot from a train is that group trying to fix a bad situation, let the oppressed person know they are not alone, and to let the oppressor know that are not welcome there with that behavior. The police may also kick someone off the train but their actions are punative, they exist to enforce a heiarchy and punish, they aren't there to help the oppressed feel like they aren't alone, and they are only letting the oppressor know that they aren't welcome there, but as long as the cops aren't nearby it's ok.
As for structuring a more just society, we could imagine one without the implicit power imbalances, one without an arbitrary heiarchy of authority figures dictating right vs wrong. I know it sounds like I'm describing anarchy (I am) but also kinda a democracy? Like everyone gets a say to make decisions, and a group of equals decide together how to live their lives. Breaking down our current heiarchies to get there is the hard part, obviously, and I think it's a generations long societal struggle. Hopefully we all live more justly than our parents until we arrive somewhere better than where we left.
Sorry this was very stream of conciousness, I hope my thoughts came across somewhat effectively.
Thank you. You are so much more articulate than I am! From my pov, I'd compare it to protest. The act of protest is itself neutral. If a group protests in favor of a white nationalist ethnostate, then I think you'd agree that would be bad; but if a group protests seeking justice and equity, we'd consider that good, and rightfully so.
If I made a post supporting a BLM or anti-ICE protest, I doubt anyone would claim that I then must open the doors to a white nationalist protest and tolerate it.
Same with this -- if people are taking action against hate, then I support that. This does not mean that we should support or tolerate oppression of marginalized groups, in fact it hurts my head trying to think of why anyone would have such a reaction -- except I suppose we are quite heavily propagandized to believe that agencies like the police are the "good guys."
And yeah, when I've seen this happen, it's always been for the good. In my experience, most people will do the right thing when they witness an injustice.
Also, I like what you said about anarchism and democracy. In fact, I often think anarchism is the most democratic system, in many ways. And in my experience, it's even preferable to democracy in that anarchist communities tend to find ways to prevent a tyranny of the majority. For instance, it would not be acceptable to anarchists to imprison and deport immigrants, even if a majority agreed that we should.
I have a hard time expressing myself, and I often think I'm going to be understood, only to get so much backlash. Communicating online really sucks donkey ass, because everyone anticipates that I'm here to cause harm.
Ah yes, mob justice. That always goes really well and innocent people are never hurt.
Ah yes, calling the police always works out well for everyone
Ok but are you also willing to accept a group of white Christians forcing a Muslim off the bus?
The meme is talking about forcing bigots off the bus. This is the opposite of what the meme is about lol
So to answer your question: Of course not
"bUt ThAt'S wHaT yOuRe SaYiNg ThAt MoB jUsTiCe Is GoOd"
Nope, not saying that at all. I'm saying we need to use direct action against bigotry and other forms of injustice. What we don't need to do is create new injustices.
This is literally "punching Nazis is bad" logic. "Logic."
Are you willing to accept the police shooting a black man holding an innocuous item?
Last time I posted this, people were calling me a fascist and supporter of "mob justice" because apparently fascism is when you force racists and homophobes to get off the train using group pressure. I'm not afraid of people like that, and I speak up when I see it.
I get where you're coming from and I want to be on your side, but this can get real tricky depending on the... I guess belief systems that make up the majority of the people on the bus.
I see where your hearts at, and I like it, but even though a lot of them are being assholes about it, some of the people in the thread make a good point. How we feel about 'group pressure' depends a lot on which group is most numerous at the time.
Abolitionist memes? On ml-lemmy?
You're god damn right!
Locking this thread. I have sent a strongly worded DM to OP.