ATTN: 🚨Community Announcement🚨 - We May Be Moving - Vote Inside!
ATTN: 🚨Community Announcement🚨 - We May Be Moving - Vote Inside!
Hello everyone, benevolent overlord #376465 here!
This wonderful little community of ours has grown a lot since it was started by AKittyCat and gloomchen back in June when Reddit chose to increase its decade-long process of going to hell at Mach 3.
That being said no one can predict the future. At the time kbin seemed like an amazing alternative to Lemmy. More features, better interface, improved functionality with Mastodon, etc etc. The reality now 8-9 months later is that kbin is falling drastically behind. I'm sure everyone has noticed the random 500 errors, the errors when upvoting and/or boosting, the occasional downtime, etc etc. Development seems to have stalled out. Ernest (kbin's dev) has had personal issues (which I won't rag on him for letting get in the way, real life comes before this dumb-ass Internet shit 10 times out of 10) but regardless, an absent dev (especially when there's only one) does not make for a good software experience.
But..this is not just my community: It's yours. So it's time for everyone's favourite activity: Sounding off in the comments!
As things stand we have two basic options:
A: Ride the wave, stay on kbin and deal with it cause life sucks while hoping Ernest comes back.
B: Jump ship and move to another instance with whatever turbulence it could cause.
For A, well nothing changes. Things might get better? Things might get worse? Who knows, roll a die.
For B, we'd be starting fresh with (theoretically) fewer problems, but depending where we go would mean we could lose some features (like if we went to Lemmy, no more microblog and Mastodon integration).
I have set up a SQ backup community a day ago, located on Lemmy.zip (https://lemmy.zip/c/squaredcircle) as it's Federation is fairly wide open which should prevent issues (and from my own experience they don't have much if any issues error-wise like we do here) tho I am not opposed to other instances should people suggest em and they look better (though I love how the .zip community already has 31 subscribers for no reason besides existing lmao).
I'll make two comments below to keep the responses kinda-sorted, and this poll will remain up until approx. March 18th to give time for visibility.
Edit: Our current backup (and possible new home) which I linked above (and again, here) has been unlocked for posting given the heavy weekend we're coming to here, and with kbin's issues seemingly increasing today.
I've gone ahead and made a fedia.io magazine for us as well https://fedia.io/m/SquaredCircle in addition to lemmy.zip's since they are currently the most populated mbin instance (and likely the most supported as a result). Going to post a thread or two on it and see if things federate. (Kbin hasn't sent anything their way in 4 days it looks like, at least as far as our community goes.)
When I log into Fedia, this is the only post in this entire thread... which is impressive because it's the first thing that appears to have federated in a week... this is being posted 5:19 am EST on 3/3/24.
Yeah I've been testing a bunch of different instances in the last day, here, kbin earth, kbin run, lemmy zip, dbzer0, beehaw, etc to see how the Federation is working before deciding where to move the community, so far Fedia seems (in terms of what has been received from Federation) the worst lol. Wouldn't even have known you commented on this thread had I not come over here and looked.
As a kbin native I've been thinking about jumping ship with how janky it's been. If this place sets up shop somewhere else I'll probably just migrate there too.
Leave?
Have you at least considered the Kbin fork, Mbin, I have little desire to join lemmy, I have an account, squidwardsclarinet, from last time Kbin shit the bed, and I'm not a fan of it, but am not against using it if need be. I'm not against moving although I lean stay Kbin/Mbin adjacent. I absolutely get wanting to move because for weeks Kbin has been a mess.
For reference I believe kbin.run is an Mbin instance.
Gonna check it out in the morning. Not opposed to either software, long as shit works for everyone.
My 2 cents:
Speaking as a community member, I created an account on lemmy.zip this morning (same name, same avatar) and comments here on kbin.social are taking over 4 hours to appear there and vice-versa. We have a rather significant pay per view event coming up this Sunday, and with federation taking that long, the live discussion will suffer.
Speaking purely as a moderator, it's important that we be able to take swift action against spambots, trolls, and harmful content. It's also important that those actions federate quickly, too. The absolute last thing I want is some jerk posting NSFL/CSAM in a live discussion thread and mod actions removing it taking hours to federate. That's obviously a worst case scenario, but not an impossible one.
It took 7 attempts to post the above comment. I vote leave.
7, ffs lol.
In the meantime while things are being decided here, I'm gonna unlock the .zip community so its ready at a moment's notice for posting should you, Tellum or anyone else need it or need to direct anyone to it. Both of you make sure to comment or post on it asap and I'll mod you there (I can't do it blindly like on kbin it looks like lol).
Edit: ok that's 6 attempts so far myself lol
I've subscribed to the .zip backup, and my (virtual) bags are packed and at the door.
I did notice that @Neon_Carnivore's comment on the .zip announcement doesn't appear from lemmy.ml though, 8 hours later. Are we sure that instance is federating any better than kbin.social is, or is lemmy.ml the issue here?
I made this kbin alt just to browse because the delay federating with lemmy got so bad, so maybe it's a partially both kinda fault.
Hey, lemmy.zip admin here - what you're seeing is a side effect of how lemmy works vs some of the stuff we do on lemmy.zip to promote communities using a tool called Lemmy Federate - basically all our communities are federated out to 27 other instances and the comments etc should pull through without issue there (reddthat, feddit uk, midwest.social etc - full list is here (currently squaredcircle@lemmy.zip is at the top) - the other instances (lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, lemm.ee etc) don't actually know about the community because no one from those instances has subscribed, so no information is given to those instances UNTIL someone subscribes or searches it for the first time on that instance, at which point its a blank slate - its the same with users, hence why neon_carnivores comment might not show on other instances - its because they're not aware of them as a user on lemmy.zip yet. It should balance out over time as more instances become aware of the community.
You can see live federation stats for lemmy.zip here.
PS - thats a really terrible explanation from me about federation on lemmy there but tl;dr its how federation on lemmy works - it just takes time until a few users are subscribed from each instance, then its good to go.
ETA - i can see upvotes pulling through properly too now on lemmy.ml as i upvote or downvote on lemmy.zip so federation going forwards should work fine...
The lemmy.ml admin made a comment on my post on that community which I'll re-share here (their comment will probably show up in 2-7 hours lmao):
Hey guys, tried posting this as a response to a federation query but i keep getting 5xx errors on kbin.social so thought i'd post it here for visibility.
Hey, lemmy.zip admin here - what you're seeing is a side effect of how lemmy works vs some of the stuff we do on lemmy.zip to promote communities using a tool called Lemmy Federate - basically all our communities are federated out to 27 other instances and the comments etc should pull through without issue there (reddthat, feddit uk, midwest.social etc - full list is here (currently squaredcircle@lemmy.zip is at the top) - the other instances (lemmy.ml, lemmy.world, lemm.ee etc) don't actually know about the community because no one from those instances has subscribed, so no information is given to those instances UNTIL someone subscribes or searches it for the first time on that instance, at which point its a blank slate - its the same with users, hence why neon_carnivores comment might not show on other instances - its because they're not aware of them as a user on lemmy.zip yet. It should balance out over time as more instances become aware of the community.
You can see live federation stats for lemmy.zip here.
PS - thats a really terrible explanation from me about federation on lemmy there but tl;dr its how federation on lemmy works - it just takes time until a few users are subscribed from each instance, then its good to go.
ETA - i can see upvotes pulling through properly too now on lemmy.ml as i upvote or downvote on lemmy.zip so federation going forwards should work fine...
I did notice that @Neon_Carnivore's comment on the .zip announcement doesn't appear from lemmy.ml though, 8 hours later. Are we sure that instance is federating any better than kbin.social is, or is lemmy.ml the issue here?
As of 6:15 EST Neon's comment still does not look to be visible via lemmy.ml (which is odd because my post there very obviously does..).
Checking both .zip and .ml's instance list, both appear federated with each other, let me test.
Edit: I just made a comment via my lemmy.zip account to the same post Neon commented on on the lemmy.zip community and checking via lemmy.ml it looks like it federated after 30 seconds or so. (https://lemmy.ml/post/12635141?scrollToComments=true)
So probably just normal federation glitch.
Edit 2: Checked my account on dbzer0, the post shows up but neither Neons nor my own new comment..hmm...will def give mbin a try today...
I think the decision falls heaviest on our fellow kbin.social users. Since moving will also likely require them to make new accounts elsewhere to ensure federation issues are resolved. From my own observation, the fedio magazine will be the most familiar option and therefore easiest to transition to.
@TellumSiege I know commenting has been a pain for you but I'd really like you to weigh in on this. AKittyCat may have been our founder, and Geek may be the admin, but you're the one that really got the ball rolling and I think it's safe to say none of us would be here without you. Hell, when AKittyCat announced that you and I both were the new mods, I thought I was being pranked.
I’m Natalie Imbruglia levels of torn on this. I haven't had much time to research the alternative sites but I'd trust you guys to pick the best one.
I'd love to know how @Montagge and @Travon333 feel. They've been just as big a part of this as anyone. If they didn't show up to comment in the discussion threads then I probably would've hightailed it out of here long ago lol
I commented in the part 2 thread that I'm fine with whatever works best for everyone!
I just now got the notification that you replied to my comment.
I just want to let you, and all our other wrestlefriends, know that they are appreciated.
Ironically I've been waiting 13h for a post I made on a mag I made on fedia to federate and none of the instances I have accounts on are showing it lmao https://fedia.io/m/SquaredCircle/newest#
Well, shit. lol
i haven't spent too much time around kbin but it's a shame. i work with symfony a lot and i should learn it and pick up some tickets.
has anyone thought about spinning up a server and hosting a squaredcircle.social instance? i'll have to investigate this. :^
i subbed to the lemmy.zip one just in case but i'm fine with anything!
has anyone thought about spinning up a server and hosting a squaredcircle.social instance? i’ll have to investigate this. :^
My own coding experience ended (for now 👀) with QuickBasic so outside of my own capabilities but should this spur anyone to do so I will not argue!
actually it looks like someone already registered squaredcircle.social and pointed it to mastohost so i'm not sure who that is.
I'm up for whatever works for the community the most. The great thing about the fediverse is the community can move anywhere and I can stay on kbin if I want as long as the two instances are federated.
Unfortunately, because of the federation issues, you'll likely need to use/make a new account wherever we decide to move to or risk being left several hours behind on the live discussions.
That's less of a federation issue and more of a kbin.social issue luckily
Stay?
I'm fine with whatevs. Though id say lock up this instance and point folks to the new one if we move. Don't leave both open (for new posts) since it'll just split and confuse the dozen of us ;P
I've only ever interacted through the instance through Lemmy, which did cause some issues early on, but I haven't noticed anything lately. I'll follow the new .zip one, that's what my vote would be.
@GeekFTW It's been two hours since this thread posted, and it still hasn't made its way over to the Lemmy instances I use. I found out about this thread from the post on Lemmy.zip, so thanks for posting it there. In fact, the last post I can currently see on Lemmy is from 9 hours ago.
If it were a one time thing, I could see waiting it out, but these issues have been recurring for weeks (months?) now, with seemingly no end in sight. I vote leave.
In addition to Lemmy, we might look into Mbin. I've seen some discussion of it in the Kbin meta communities as an alternative. We'd want to make very sure we don't end up right back in this situation, though, so I'm more leaning towards a Lemmy instance just because it's the more mature platform.
I'm gonna look into mbin tomorrow, give it a test and see. Not opposed to it given Dev is at least active lol
I access this sub purely through lemmy, so I'm happy with whatever the kbin natives decide.
Whatever makes the community better, so I vote we leave since this has been an issue for quite some time.
With how things are going I have a distinct feeling we aren't gonna be making it to March 18th lol.