Agreed, but maybe spell out "Pick up artists" for the people who wouldn't know the acronym.
In mandarin, pua means 'granny.'
Damn granny, Always has the worst dating advice!
Yeah I thought it meant “potentially unwanted apps.”
Agreed, but I thought the text was already too small, but I will try to improve my upcoming memes :D
I believe the most common issue people face today is simply not getting to know enough people in order to find a partner.
Yeah cuz meeting people and getting to know them sucks on ice. I have no idea how you're supposed to do it without like going to school and being forced to be around the same people all day until you figure out which ones you hate the least as a matter of survival.
Get a hobby involving group pqrticipation. Join a socialist club and you will quickly drown in women.
Going to church also works if you like old women.
Imagine if guys figured out that having g decent hygiene is like 70% of it. Women like a good smelling fellow. The other 50% is just being interesting and not all murdery.
Do I even want to mnow what a PUA is?
Self described Pickup Artists.
Ohhh man that's some serious cancer
My main problem is meeting new people
Ok, so half of the pick up artists I followed in my late teens were genuine sociopaths, but the great ones were just teaching deep introverted and confused guys how to socialize with people in general.
To be honest I doubt I would be married or have such healthy friendships if I hadn’t learned some of those skills that most people seem to pick up naturally in high school.
Laughs in minding my own business but being alone because I don't initiate
I wish my case was as easy as that. First time I'm even learning what PUA is.
This is such a reddit meme as well with its blame game. Judging the behaviour of some few extremes and then putting the blame on men once again that have nothing to do with any of this shit, making them feel even more guilty and shitty for no reason
Yeah, sad stuff. The concept itself seems alien to me as well after learning of it. Might have to do with how underdeveloped my country is but it feels like a generalization of experiences from specific places.
Slightly in tangent. But I think problem of finding a partner these days is that most of it now happens online, though dating apps. And they are a breeding ground of the most shallow and judgemental viewpoints in human history.
I forget the exact statistics, but according to some dating app, men swipe "yes" to like 60-something percent of the women. Women on the other hand swipe yes to like 4%. At a glance, while that does have a large disparity, you just think... Oh, women are more selective. And I think that's fine and they should be. But problem is that all other women are selecting the same guys. So the top tier men, whether in looks, height and/or wealth are banging 100s of women. While the bottom majority of men are never getting any matches. From the woman's perspective, every man they date is a cheater. That's obvious, these guys have girls lined up as far as the eye can see. They have zero reason to settle with you. From majority of the men's perspective, they never get any matches or get constantly ghosted and get angry. Majority of men don't cheat, frankly they don't even have the opportunity to cheat.
Men get angry at incredibly high standard of women which keep rising since women doesn't have problem sleeping with men higher in social ladder, albeit briefly. And women get angry at incredibly high number of guys who are just there for sex and have no interest in you as a person.
In real life, you see people first, build an understanding about them and start consider dating. If you know that guy is a cheater, a woman wouldn't pick them. A guy could go up and get to know them instead in dating app world where seemingly every woman ghosts you.
I think dating apps are ruining the "finding a partner" problem.
As a guy who struggle to date because I respect women as best I can, I sympathize with the mentality indicated, but also disagree that it is just a dating app issue.
Distilling it to a few points is, I believe, disingenuous to the very complex situation that modern dating is.
Although there is argument about the science, the book Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan is one of many that can help reframe the physiological and psychological background of partnering. Not insofar as it is valid, but that what we think we know is really much more under review and debatable.
Add the increase of women in the workplace, Title 9, the increase of an educated women (nay thr dominance of women in many masters and above programs), the urbanization of society, the increase of population dramatically and it's associated demographics shift towards an increase in women, etc, etc. There is a lot going on. Which definitely includes the change of technology in reaching peers and potential dates.
Our physiology has not changed nearly as much as the knowledge base has however. Which means many things, but among other things it means that physiology can be manipulated by technology. In this, I would agree there is a basis for arguing that dating apps are interrupting the interpersonal interaction.
Having said all that, anecdotally, I will also say not using apps and meeting people is impressively challenging for all the previously normal reason dating is painful... Assuming you can find a place to meet someone compatible.
I agree with all your points. I didn't intend to imply that dating apps are the only at fault, merely the one that came to my head after reading OPs post.
I feel the need to point out that at any point any of these women could decide to focus on less superficial qualities and more on personality. At some point you're making a choice.
Probably
Man I'd hate being a young man today.
Guys are put in a position where they have to put themselves out there and face rejection. it's obviously becoming harder to connect with women given that a larger and larger percentage of men under 21 report being virgins every year.
Then as a result of being in this sad but common position you get told that it's all your fault and you're a shitty person.
I think I would have just ended up killing myself if I was a teenager today.
Feel like a higher rate of virgins could be a good sign that people aren't feeling pressured to do things they don't want to.
A big part of this is moving everything online, it makes the available pool too wide and doesn't allow for things to be forgotten as easily. Meeting people in person allows the awkward stuff to be forgotten and the highlights remembered. It can still go terribly wrong, but there was more meaningful interaction.
Yeah the world is super fucked up. I met almost all my previous hook ups (along with my GF) in real life.
Also according to my single friends it got infinitely worse during covid. Although I'm in my late twenties and almost everyone over thirty says it's not super hard or anything. I don't know if that's a generational difference or old stereotypes are actually true.
I'm just glad that I grew up in a different era.
Then as a result of being in this sad but common position you get told that it’s all your fault and you’re a shitty person.
My point was that the pickup artists who claim that they are helping or empowering young men are in fact not helping them to get a healthy attitude towards the other sex or enabling them to be in healthy relationships. Instead (most of) the tips of the pickup artists are in contra productive and will make you sad, angry and alone. I don't think it's in their interest that you get healthy relationships, because that would mean that they would loose a client.
And I also do not think it's a good idea to suggest suicide to troubled teenagers.
I'm not suggesting suicide, I'm saying I would personally have not been able to manage as a boy in today's world because of how fucked up this is.
The way I read it was that anyone who has trouble with women is doing something stupid like this. A lot of normal guys just don't have a real chance these days.
if i killed myself it isnt cause im not banging people rofl
Women had to adjust to be expected to work and do housework, still make less money per hour of labor, still represent the minority of ceos/leaders/comfy asshole billionaires, way more likely to be the ones in danger physically when picking a partner incorrectly, but go on guys about how life is so hard for you. Sounds like most of you are considerably less able to adapt than the women around you.
Yes BUT...there is a difference between platonic socialization and flirting/courtship. Some people can flirt naturally. Some people have to learn it. Some people can't turn it off. Which is why blanket advice for how to treat other people isn't particularly helpful.
So yes, most PUAs are creepy and gross. But also, for those who don't understand flirting innately, it's not like there are a ton of obvious reputable resources available on how to do it. And some PUAs do explain some of the key bits of psychology behind flirting. Things like tension and release, light teasing, managing eye contact, reading body language, escalating physical touch...things that you should be approaching differently if you're trying to flirt with someone vs being friendly. Things that people expect you to do if you're interested in them, that aren't inherently obvious.
And I say this as an ASD guy who confused a LOT of girls in high school by not courting them like I was "supposed" to, then started doing real research in my 20s into things like body language, flirting styles, love languages, attachment styles, etc, and coming to a lot of epiphanies about how stupid I had been, and am now in my 30s reasonably successful at dating.
For those curious on some actual resources, The Definitive Book of Body Language and The Five Flirting Styles are good places to start on learning the differences between platonic and romantic socialization!___
